Anyone who has ever spent time wrenching on a car has been there. Despite seemingly understanding how what you’re looking at works, how it comes apart, and how it goes together, a problem pops up that appears to have no solution. That’s where I’m at, and hopefully today I will get some advice and comfort from knowing that I’m not alone.
The issue started in late May of this year when I was about to head out on a road trip to Knoxville, Tennessee. Before traveling the nine-ish hours from my home in Little Rock, Arkansas, I wanted to refresh the front-end suspension components on my sexy Ford Flex. That included new quick struts, new sway-bar end links, and new sway-bar bushings.
The job itself was laborious but not totally out of my depth since I’d spent some time running a repair shop in the past. Everything came out and went back in without much drama. The problem popped up around 10 miles into my 530-mile trip. The car felt like it changed direction under load at highway speeds.
In short, adding throttle beyond simply maintaining speed on the highway led the car to steer right a little bit. Removing that same throttle input saw the Flex shift back to the left. It wasn’t super dramatic and didn’t produce any weird sounds, so I basically babied the car to Memphis, TN where I got out and inspected my work. Based on videos shot with my phone, nothing was out of place.
I repeated this process again in Nashville, TN, and again, nothing appeared loose. Upon arriving in Knoxville, I made an appointment and dropped it off at a local Firestone. They checked it over, did an alignment check, and said everything was good from what they could see.
I picked up the car, started to drive it back to where I was staying, and almost immediately felt the issue again. I turned right around and dropped it back off. This time, the shop decided that I needed rear control arms. Is that true? Probably. Does that affect steering under load? I’m doubtful. In any case, I skipped the rear control arms and babied the car home where I brought it to the shop that I used to work at.
They suggested a tie rod so we did that. No change. At this point, it’s been roughly five months of gingerly driving the Flexasaurus. I’ve pulled everything apart, looked it over, re-torqued bolts, and still, the issue continues. I have a few ideas of what it could be at this point.
The issue only happens under certain conditions. For instance only at highway speed. It only seems to shift the car to the right under load at that speed and is dramatically more noticeable when turning right. It’s almost imperceptible when turning left at high speed.
Perhaps the quick strut on the driver’s side is shifting under load somehow. That might explain it. In addition, it’s plausible that one of the engine or transmission mounts is failing. One way to see how your mounts are doing is to put the car in drive or reverse and then give it a little gas while holding the brake. Here’s what that results in on the Flex:
That doesn’t look like too much play to me, but maybe I’m wrong. In any case, I have two questions for you: First, what is wrong with my car? Secondly, and far more importantly, what is a problem you struggled to fix?
I no, this is not exactly a new article, but I hope this comment finds you. There are 2 major sources of wandering for the flex/explorer/Taurus platform. The first, which you already addressed, are the front lower control arm rearward bushings. The second is the rear upper control arm inboard joint. With the rear wheels off the ground, push the top of the tire onward and either feel for play, or have an assistant look for play where the aluminum joint bolts to the rear subframe. Unfortunately, on the Flex (and Taurus), you’ll have to partially lower the rear subframe to get clearance to remove the rear upper arms to replace that joint. There’s one other area to check, particularly on the Flex, the rear toe links. The outer joint seems to wear out especially quickly on them.
Good luck!
Thanks amigo!
I know I am late to this post, but this is more like “What wrenching problem did you have trouble diagnosing?”
A problem I had was getting two fine thread 8mm bolts into the top of the steering rack on an 04 or 05 Maxima. The access was between the firewall and the motor/trans sub-frame, iirc. On the lift, based on where I had to stand, I could either A) Break my wrists to have the required flexion or B) Cast Telekenesis as a level 12 Warlock to get these to thread and tighten.
While I struggled to stand in a slime of transmission fluid, invented new and improved curse words, and generally wondered why I wanted to do this as a living, the shop foreman came over and did it in about 6 minutes, which made me feel immensely better.
YOU! YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP! YOU HAVE A PORSCHE DEALERSHIP. YOU HAVE WEIRD CARS. I NEED TO FIND THIS THING.
I have had a pegged temperature gauge for YEARS on my 944 — like, think the race before the race where it ate its head gasket and clutch in one go — and I think I’ve singled it out to the temperature sender that goes into the block. I’ve swapped the gauge out in the pod for a different one only to have the same issue. I’ve even asked a shop, “hey, why does this gauge peg to full-hot as soon as I turn the power on?” and they couldn’t figure it out in the short little window we had to mull it over. It does the same thing regardless of whether the sender that screws into the block is plugged in or not.
The ’87 924S engine that’s in the car was swapped in at some point by a previous owner. It came with a two-year-only temperature sender with a single blade connector that plugs into the wiring harness. This is the issue. It’s part number 944.606.201.00. I can’t seem to find an aftermarket version, and Porsche discontinued the part in January per my local dealer. They searched for it at other dealerships and couldn’t find one still for sale. BOOOOO.
IDK, tell parsh to make my part again. VDO still makes the sender itself (part number 323-801-001-006N) for yachts and stuff, but that should be parsh’s money! Parsh, a maker of vintage parts, should be taking my money!
A single blade temp sender should be a pretty easy swap to something universal. Just figure out what thread the sensor uses and go from there.
I found a marine one yesterday that comes with a blade on top, so we’ll see, I guess!
Fingers crossed!
Have you checked the harness? If it’s happening with the sensor unplugged, the wire could be shorted-to-ground upstream. I don’t have experience with porsche so not 100% sure how they do their signals, but if it’s a typical 0v ground system the gauge/computer would look at a drop in voltage to read a higher temp.
Welllllllll…it all feeds into a closed loom, oof. The visible parts that didn’t feed into a larger wrap all looked intact, though. Either way, it does the same thing (immediately read full-hot when the car is on) regardless of whether it’s plugged in or not.
My friend tested just the sensor, though, and the resistance value we got was WAY lower than it should have. That’s why I’m thinking it’s the most likely issue.
Massive oof. Getting the symptom with it unplugged is whats throwing me, but if the car is looking for higher voltage as higher temp that would make sense (but would still be weird). Have you probed the connector to see what the car is feeding the sensor? If the new sensor doesn’t work, and if you’re like me and enjoy electrical diagnostic, you could run a wire with a small resistor from the connector to battery ground and see if the temp reading changes. If not, get a wire toner and find that short. Best of luck either way, hopefully it’s the sensor; I just don’t trust old wires.
I…I am not like you insofar as electrical bits terrify me, haha.
I need to get over this and Taycan-swap something dumb. Just go straight into the deep end.
You get used to things sparking after a bit, then it gets fun. If you use a 1 amp inline fuse during your testing that’ll be more than enough to make sure you don’t fry anything important. It’s all trial and error, and the good thing about 12v is you can’t really hurt yourself. Tesla swapping a 944 would make for a great read….. (insert gif of kevin g saying “Just saying”)
I’m only getting 90 thousand miles out of a set of steer tires on my semi, even after an alignment. My drives have 220 thousand on them with 50 percent treadlife left, but I can’t get over 100k mi on steers. It’s annoying. And now I’ve picked up an intermittent vibration despite being aligned, 6 new shocks, and the bushings being good. No abnormal tread wear either. Pisses me off.
Hmmmm. This seems like a mild torque steer issue. If my research is correct, the Flex has equal-length CV axles. This is done to keep the angles the same under accel/decel in order to reduce the occurrence of torque steer. So you have that going for you. Your alignment angles do not appear to be the cause of this issue; even though the lower right side caster could cause a drift to the right, I don’t think the cross-caster difference is large enough to cause a pull. (Your rear toe settings will cause tire wear though)
Have you tried cross-switching your front tires? That’s always a good first step on a pull diagnosis, in order to rule out a tire construction problem.
Regarding the Flex:
Disconnect both swaybar links and go for a road test. If the problem is still there, hopefully you kept the original strut assemblies. Re-install them, and road test again.
The issue started right after replacing these parts. I wouldn’t go any further before eliminating those possibilities.
Overheating in my ’67 VW squareback with the stock 1600 with dual-port heads and carbs. Over many years I tried various things including rerouting fuel lines, finding a pair of stock ’67 heads, various tunings, and more. I always had trouble getting the carbs tuned and all the docs I could find gave conflicting advice and tuning specs. This had been going on for many years. When I finally decided to clean the carbs, I also decided to go deep into the specs on the carbs to find out that what I thought were stock original carbs were from a ~71ish bus! I bought the car at 100k miles with popping heads from the first owner. Digging into my stash of spare carbs (I had two spare pairs) to find that between all the parts I had, I did have all the bits, pieces, and jets to build a proper stock pair (jetting is different between left and right due to the non-symmetrical air cleaner location). Installed these carbs into a freshly rebuilt engine and it ran great (finally)!
Mostly I just endlessly worry about noises that are probably nothing.
Same problem. I swapped a b16b & s4c transmission in a 98 civic, replaced the control arm bushings, struts, ball joints, & tie rod ends. The car pulls right on heavy throttle & left when I let off. Had it inspected & aligned twice with nothing noticeable. It’s driving me crazy.
A problem I struggled with back in the day (2001) was a Geo Metro I picked up for $700. Did a ton of work but something electrical fried 2 ecms. One time almost caused a wreck. Spent a month tearing wires apart. The neighbor even chuckled over the shit show I was competing against in the driveway. By chance I noticed a nice crack in the junction block under the dash. So that was replaced and the problem never happened again.
I’ll aways wonder how that got busted.
Are you sure that’s not just expected torque steer given the non-equal cv lengths and added power? Every upgrade we’ve ever done to our 94 lemons car just made your problem worse until we got a hold of the S80 trans from a JDM type R Integra that had a torsen diff.
I’m not sure of much. That’s why I stick with this day job. But I like this site because it’s full of wisdom from experience. Going to check out the s80. Thanks!
My steering/suspension issues in my ZJ. I’ve done both hubs, and a lot of other misc parts, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. but it still doesn’t sound, feel, or track 100% I might just have to throw some $ at a shop and have them do it. It drives ok, but it’s not right, and rattles on the driver’s side… I have a full rebuild kit in the back (minus some parts) but weather is turning cold and I’m not sure when I can get my uncle’s lift…
Re: flex, assuming you checked your tire pressures, I’d look into any control arm / suspension link bushings, if that’s not it, check your pad wear to make sure it’s even inside vs outside to rule out a stuck caliper slide.
Driver’s side CV axle replacement on a 2010 Mazda6 with the 4-banger. There is almost zero room to get access to pop the CV out, so the CV puller fork I rented from O’Reilly’s was useless. I spent hours and hours trying to pry the axle out with every technique I could think of and finally was able bash it out by literally stacking hammers.
Had a 53 chevy 210 that refused to start after a tune up. Double and triple checked everything. Just as I about to take a sledge hammer to give it a reason to be broken, put the old condenser on and it worked.
Condensers have a manufacturing coating to prevent corrosion in storage. This needs to be removed (sandpaper works) before mounting, to provide a good grounding. Otherwise, your points will arc, and not run correctly. (Or at all)
Sold the car years ago as my dad and I added up to cost to fix up the half assed body work and mechanical bits.
Good info to have.
The problem that was a pain in the ass to fix were front struts on a 2018 acura mdx. Everything was smooth sailing on the passenger side, move the control arms and disconnected the axle shaft from the hub, lower the suspension enough to slide in the old one out and new one in, and boom bada bang the strut was in. However, the driver’s side was another story. The axle shaft would not budge from the wheel hub. No amount of fire, sledgehammering,
crying,or crowbar could get the axle nut to budge so the axle shaft was still stuck in the hub. This complicated things as we could not move the knuckle and all attached to it enough as needed to slide the old one out and the new one in. We also needed to be careful not to pop the axle shaft out of the transaxle. So after (“carefully”) jumping on a crowbar lodged into a hole in the lower control arm, we were able to shove the strut into place! Well, it wasn’t aligned. So after more jumping on the crowbar, we were able to lower the suspension enough to slide it into place and the job was finally done after buttoning everything up. Only took 10 hours!Moral of the story: If you can’t bang out the axle nut when replacing front struts on a 2018 Acura Mdx, give up.
I have found that using one of those antique railroad jacks squeezes in between the axle shaft and control arms to mount and dismount that front strut so you don’t have to disassemble everything. Tight fit, just make sure you’re not pinching the cv boot.
3rd Gen Mini Clubman Cooper S. N18 turbo 4 / 6 spd manual. The cooling system is a product of the Devil.
First, the thermostat lives in a plastic housing on the driver side of the cylinder head, LHD U.S. spec car, above gearbox. Ridiculously a pain to remove, and quite prone to leak. Here is where it just goes absolutely, capital “S”, Silly.
That housing is connected to the back of the water pump housing, completely across the back of the engine, by a large press fitted PLASTIC PIPE. This pipe ends up brittle from the heat it is subjected to, and will crumble if stared at in a disapproving way. Attempting to replace the leaking thermostat housing means touching this pipe, which then becomes unhappy with you. It also will deposit pieces of the crumbled pipe into the water pump, seizing it.
BMW, purveyors of these rather expensive things, might be expected to engineer a bit better. That expectation, however, would be misplaced.
I chased a check engine light for months once because got 3 O2 sensors in a row that were either bad out of stock or went bad very shortly after install.
I spent HOURS checking and rechecking wire to and from the ECM and testing voltages at both ends of the circuit only to have it end up multiple bad sensors.
I have been struggling with some Jurassic technology. It’s taken me forever to get the idle and progression circuit sorted in the Weber 40 DCOE 151 carbs on my 69 Alfa. If one is rich, the other is lean, and I’ve spent way too much time on the forums learning about progression hole locations and butterfly valve positions. I think I’m close though, the F16 emulsion tubes seem to work well with the 50F9 idle jets, and my AFRs might be looking good, finally? It’s been a journey that I didn’t really expect/want, but I guess it’s built some character?
Stupid tip: a stethoscope and a screwdriver, at idle when the thing is warm you can hear the difference. To risk a dreadful pun, it sounds stupid but it does really help.
Ah yes the Iain Tyrrell special
Well I would try the grab each wheel (when lifted) and pull top and bottom and left and right, and see if there is any play. Perhaps a wheel bearing is starting to go bad, and it might be opposite of where you are thinking the problem is. Not speaking from experience, but since you’ve had other things looked at, might be worth a try.
Doesn’t your Flex have the V6 with the internal water pump? My mechanic has a Taurus with that engine, he said changing it out “isn’t that bad” for him at least. I would be sure to change it on time to avoid coolant getting into the oil. Not a good design.
My GT6 sounds like the engine is pinging when I step on the gas. I’ve got a programmable distributor so I can change the advance curve at will. It’s not a crazy amount of advance. A little more than stock. But I’ve backed it off to where it barely runs and it still makes that pinging sound. Sounds like crackling saran wrap.
It started this year about the time I put a new exhaust on it. Could it be an exhaust leak? It’s been driving me nuts.
Inlet manifold gasket?
Possible…
Strut bearings? I have the same issue with my BMW that also baffling me. When I drive over cracks in line with direction of travel, it shimmys a little bit. Two shops have said the front end feels tight. I just replaced the rear suspension this year. Baffling.
That’s most likely your alignment. I prefer to run about 1* toe out in the front and 0.5* toe in on the rear, and your “problem” is one I always introduce intentionally on a car that will occasionally see track duty.
Good point, I could have it checked once it’s back on the road again. Thanks!
My WRX gets really hot climbing long hills. But not just rampant overheat. Its very controllable by reducing speed and turning off AC etc. And it only starts to occur over 75 degrees outside. Its clearly just somehow overloading the cooling system. I’ve done long term pressure tests, I’ve done tests for combustion in the cooling system (its a subaru, the answer is always head gaskets right?), I’ve installed an aftermarket solid aluminum radiator.
It’s been this way for at least 3 years now. the issue has not gotten any worse, it just hasn’t gotten any better either.
Are you sure it’s broken? Controllable overheating only on long fast hills only in hot weather kinda sounds to me like the car is working exactly as the engineers intended, and that they intentionally specced a cooling system with a little less capacity than you’re used to.
Yes, I’m confident its an issue. It wasn’t an issue the first year I owned the car.
1. are the fans working as they should?
2. Is the temperature sensor working?
I had a fairly similar problem with a 2012 Honda Civic, replacing the thermostat fixed it. ~$30 for the Honda OEM part and not too terrible a fix.
Its worth trying again. I have replaced it once to no change, but It is not an OEM unit currently.
Both fans turn on at seemingly appropriate times. While I haven’t heat gunned the engine or anything, I have no reason to believe the sensor is inaccurate. The issue is highly predictable and controllable, so bad sensor seems unlikely.
Turning on is one thing: do they continue to run?
-gf bought a car cheap because it repeatedly overheated in hot afternoon traffic with ac on. Turned out the fan would run—but only for about 12 minutes. $25 fan motor fixed it
If you’re looking for other avenues to explore assuming you’ve replaced the thermostat and water pump (timing belt driven if it’s an early one, so while you’re in there…) I’d pay close attention to the air fuel ratios, it could be one or more fuel injectors or the fuel pump / filter aren’t letting enough fuel to flow causing it to burn lean, and therefore hot. Another weird problem to explore in 2000’s Subaru’s that causes completely unrelated problems is their evap canister or in-tank pressure sensor / purge valve. When they fail by being full of gas or stuck it confuses the F out of the ECU and it seems to do random things and throw random codes.
Those were both done when I bought the vehicle and if worked fine for a year. I can review the fuel and evap ideas though. I haven’t been down those roads.
Coolant leaks.
Not even in any particular vehicle, but across multiple cars and bikes; the nature of them seems to be that once the most obvious one is fixed, the increased pressure in the cooling system means the next one will spring up, ad infinitum.
Each of them necessitating draining coolant, fixing it, bleeding the system and crossing my fingers that that’s the end of it… only to notice a suspicious sweet smell on the next drive.
God no kidding. My K2500 has a phantom leak somewhere that I just CANT TRACK DOWN. Rad had a leak in it, replaced that. Coolant showed up on top of the intake manifold, replaced the intake gasket. Looked like it was weeping around the upper rad hose, cleaned it up and tightened the clamp better. Yet, I still smell that goddamn smell. Good news is that all the stuff I have done has seriously slowed the loss of coolant.
Could be the passenger side strut does not have adequate pressure and is compressing more than it should, thereby causing a pull to the right. Did you have this issue before your front suspension refresh?
Good idea! Nope. Only after
I think they were correct about the problem coming from the rear. The acceleration vs deceleration behavior sounds like rear toe play or something.
I’ll check that out!
To state the obvious, and as Huibert or one the NASCAR wizards around here can no doubt confirm, rather small rear changes can have massive handling effects. Think about when you are driving in reverse.
Please let us know if/when you do solve it.
How about struggling, present tense?
My XK8 convertible’s soft top has ceased to function – and joy of joys – with the rear windows down. It’s garaged – which is fine – but I’ve been reading online for all manner of relays and connections and that nonsense to sort out. So far all I’ve been able to do is to get the hydraulic pump to run for a bit and then cut out.
Hoorayyyyy…..