What’s The Best Used Three-Row Vehicle For Someone Who Wants Reliability But Isn’t Totally Dead Inside?

As much as we hate to admit it, our lives are ruled by edge cases. Specific events or conditions that are outside the norm, which can push a system to its limits if not properly addressed. It’s why range anxiety is a primary reason people don’t buy electric vehicles, even though the average US driver’s daily commute is only 39 miles. It’s why people will daily-drive pickup trucks all year for the handful of times they buy mulch at Home Depot or tow their boat. Most people have no “need” for a vehicle with more than 200 horsepower, but sometimes you need to lay a couple lines down on the pavement in the name of America. The truth is, even if these vehicles have some compromises, it’s better than being caught with your pants down in a vehicle that can’t perform. Most people like having the ability to go on a road-trip, or transport a bunch of gravel, or accelerate at irresponsible speeds, even if all of these activities are an edge case compared to their vehicle’s daily use.

I figured this out while talking with my partner about replacing my Continental. My plan was to pick up a decent Lincoln Town Car for about $7k. It’s a roomy boat of a sedan that will float comfortably over our road’s numerous potholes. The final form of the venerable Panther platform, perfectly adapted to its environment like the ancient crocodile, evolution having honed it to perfection over the millennia. With all the kinks worked out over trillions of miles in taxis and police cruisers, these cars basically last forever with minimal maintenance. I enjoy wrenching as long as it’s not on dumb stuff like the issues I’ve been having with the Continental. With a second kid potentially coming this year, my limited wrenching time will be trending closer to zero for a while. I wanted something roomy, comfortable, free from BS that will just work every day. I figured the Town Car would have plenty of room for two car seats and all the accoutrements needed for transporting young children.

But I was missing an important edge case. Every couple of months we need to drive an additional person, usually my mother-in-law, somewhere. It can be a quick trip, like to a mall or kid’s play gym, or longer like visiting family several hours away. Squeezing between two car seats over a long distance isn’t going to cut it. Also as the kids get older (my son is currently 3), we may need to transport their friends somewhere with them or carpool. We need something with a third row. I tried bringing up the Town Car’s wonderful front bench seat that can sit three across, fully knowing the ridiculousness of that suggestion. My Town Car idea is dead and now I need a much more versatile vehicle for future Steve’s new set of edge cases.

So I am coming to our brilliant and handsome Autopian commentariat for advice. During this search I test drove a bunch of cars and got my mind blown by a type of vehicle I’ve somehow overlooked over the past couple decades of driving. Most of these I’ve done a bunch of research on, but I value real world advice. Please let me know what you think and any choices I missed. It is a privilege to write for this site and have access to this brilliant hive mind of a community, and I intend to fully take advantage of that here.

Here are the criteria:

1. Under $20k, closer to $10k the better.
2. A third row of seats. They don’t have to be huge, my MIL is about 5 foot tall, so I don’t need Shaq levels of legroom.
3. 3. Dead nuts reliable. I have no problem doing regular maintenance but I’d rather spend my garage time fixing up my Bonneville or Ranger. I don’t want to end up stranded or forced to deal with a bunch of BS repairs. I’d like to keep this vehicle for a while so longevity is key.
4. Comfortable. I just turned 40. I’m an old man now. My days of driving tin cans on dodgy sport springs rattling my teeth loose are behind me. Our roads are crappy and straight, so comfy cruisers are desired.
5. Gas mileage is only semi-important. Vehicles with third rows are necessarily big so I’m not hoping for a miracle. I work from home most of the time, but drive the kids 5 miles to day care every day. I do about 1200 miles a month. Most long trips are for work and I get reimbursed for gas

The Sensible Choice: A 4th Gen Honda Odyssey

I’m not above driving a minivan. Of all the vans available, the 4th gen Odyssey seems to be the sweet spot. We have a 2018 Accord that’s been excellent so we are Honda fans. Some of the new 5th gens are dipping under $20k, but I’ve read multiple comments from serial Odyssey owners that they preferred their old 4th gen over the latest and greatest.  I think the Chrysler vans look better but are mechanically temperamental from what I’ve seen. These Hondas seem to last forever (well past 200k miles) but aren’t without issues. They have the excellent 3.5L J35Z8 V6, but the transmission needs its fluid changed every 30k miles to go the distance. They also have an Eco mode that deactivates some of the cylinders that can foul the plugs, or if unlucky, roach the piston rings. This is why most owners recommend a “muzzle” which disables Eco mode. I can find plenty of Odysseys for sale in the mid teens price-wise with 80-120k miles, which are just being broken in.

I test drove one and it is definitely functional. It is a giant box so it has the most room in all the rows and in the cargo area. It drives decently, no real complaints there. The 250 horsepower V6 gets out of its own way and sounds better than a minivan has any right to be. The dash setup with the two screens is odd but I can get used to it. I didn’t love it but I didn’t hate it. It’s “an car” as they say. For fuel economy it’s about 22 MPG combined, maybe slightly better than the Continental but not much.

The Non-Mini Van: Ford Flex

People either love or hate the Flex, I happen to love it. It’s a distinctive design that yields a lot of practical space inside. Believe it or not, its wheelbase and exterior dimensions are all within about an inch of the Odyssey. The example I sampled was high mileage and pretty ratty, but it drove surprisingly well. Its road manners felt much better than the Odyssey for some reason. You can get a regular V6 with 287 horsepower or a turbocharged six with 365 horses. The naturally aspirated six I drove had plenty of power, the Ecoboost model is an unlikely sleeper.

The instrument cluster with dual screens surrounding an analog gauge was attractive and practical. The dash had a lot of “fake” touch sensitive buttons, which isn’t idea,l but they seemed to work well enough. One drawback is the third row seat access. You need to fully fold the second row seat-back down and flip the whole seat forward to get into the back; impossible with a car seat. Luckily, second row captains chairs are an option, which would make clambering into the third row easier.

Researching Flexes (Flexors, Flexii?) online, owners seem to love them. These vehicles have such a following that multiple people claim to have two Flexes in their stable. I’ve actually seen this in person: a house I drive by every day has two of these big wagons in their driveway. They seem to be fairly reliable except for one fatal flaw with the Ford V6: a timing chain driven water pump in the middle of the engine. It can grenade itself at any time and you are faced with a surprise timing chain job that can cost about $3-4k, or a weekend of wrenching time. It was bad enough that there was a class action lawsuit against Ford. It seems to happen randomly. There are people with 250k miles on their engines on the original water pump, and ones that went out under 100k miles. This isn’t a deal breaker but it gives me a little pause. For MPG it’s roughly the same as my Continental. Thankfully Flexes grow on trees in the Detroit area so I have plenty of examples to choose from.

The Paradigm Shift: Lexus GX 460

I was not prepared for this test drive. I’ve never noticed these things as luxury trucks aren’t really my forte. I’d never heard the word Prado, which is the storied nameplate the rest of the world knows this truck as. A couple GX’s pop up in my Autotrader search and I spotted a top of the line 2014 model in the dealer lot after test driving the Flex. I asked for the keys to take it for a spin with no expectations. It basically blew me away.

I know it sounds dumb that a luxury SUV rightly derided as ancient by the automotive press would leave me floored, but it did. This GX had almost 180,000 miles on the odometer, but looked and drove like it had 60,000. It had some of the best seats, and more importantly, the most comfortable ride I’ve ever experienced. Sure the technology was a little outdated when it came out, but I prefer buttons over touchscreens and the interior felt like it was assembled with care and intention. At speed it was quiet, almost serene. The Mark Levinson speaker system sounded rich and detailed. The balloon-like tires and body-on-frame construction dispatched potholes with aplomb. I feel like a broken record complaining about the shitty Detroit roads and here I was piloting a vehicle that basically turned them to glass. No more scanning ahead for craters, cringing every time some frost heave threatens to bend a wheel or bust a control arm out its socket like a fat Steven Seagal. I felt totally at ease, melting into the seat like a pat of butter in a baked potato. I could’ve kept driving all day without complaint.

Am I stupid? Have I been a truck person this whole time? Have I lived my life the past 20+ years under the false assumption that cars were the superior vehicular form for basic A to B transportation in almost all situations? Maybe. I learned to drive in a forest green GMT400 Suburban. I piloted that family truck for the first few years of my driving life, but I was too green to know anything and Milwaukee’s roads aren’t too bad. After that I got a VW Golf with Fast and Furious dreams. Two decades later I got truck-pilled by this Lexus.

After putting my brain back in my skull I started looking at this vehicle objectively. The third row seats aren’t as big as the Odyssey, but they would work well for my needs. Cargo space with both third row seats up shrinks by a lot, but that is an edge case for an edge case. With only one third row seat, up cargo is fine. The rear hatch opens to the side like a giant door, which is actually quite nice. You don’t have to wait around for the electric motor to slowly raise the hatch, or risk bumping your head. The glass pops up if you need to throw something in there quick.

The V8 is thirsty but only a couple MPG less than the Lincoln. The cheaper insurance basically offsets the increased gas costs. For a family with two kids that occasionally has to transport a fifth person, the GS would work great.

Most importantly, if you believe what everyone says, this is the most reliable modern vehicle ever made. The reliability ratings are literally pegged at 100%, as high as they can go. Like the Town Car, the platform was produced for over a decade and wasn’t redesigned needlessly over and over. It’s proven itself in the harshest conditions and has been perfected over time. The GX is built in Toyota’s flagship plant in Tahara, Japan where automotive quality was invented. Consensus is you’ll only need to open the hood to change your oil and refill your wiper fluid. Where many auto journalists saw a reluctance to change; Toyota saw it as sticking with what works, letting other automakers trip over themselves chasing half-baked technology that fails prematurely.  Savagegeese had an excellent review where they called it a truck that’s free of flashy bullshit that you can pass on to your grand-kids. I haven’t been able to stop thinking about these since that drive.

The Disappointment: Chevy Tahoe

Fresh off my Lexus high I wanted to check out some other trucks. I especially wanted to get back to my Chevy roots and test a Tahoe or Yukon. The one I drove had 160k hard miles on it. It’s not fair to compare one vehicle to another, but this one was quite beat. Looking past that, the packaging and layout seemed great. Compared to the Lexus, the seats weren’t as comfortable and the interior materials are obviously not as nice, but the dash was attractively laid out and had all the gizmos. The third row seat/cargo space situation was actually pretty similar to the GX; you buy a Suburban if you need more space. I think the 5-10 year old Tahoe/Yukon trucks I was looking at are some of the better looking SUVs out there. It could be the perfect family vehicle. So what’s the problem?

Everywhere I look people are saying these are maintenance nightmares with owners needing to replace engines and transmissions. According to Dashboard-Light.com quality took a dive after 2014. The trucks in my price range have over 100k miles, and a surprising number of ads say things like “200k on body, 80k on engine” or “transmission just replaced”. I saw one review by a Chevy tech who said they were replacing multiple transmissions a week. It is a bummer because I’d seriously consider one of these, but every resource says to stay away. Not worth risking it.

The Wildcard: Dodge Durango

The Durango is an attractive SUV. Like the Charger and Challenger, subtle updates over the years kept a handsome shape looking fresh over a long lifecycle. I drove one at the SRT experience at Michigan International Speedway over a decade ago and was blown away that it beat the Chargers and Challengers in a tight autocross course. Reading that the V6 Pentastar engines had some issues I found a 2017 Durango Citadel with the 5.7L Hemi and 107k miles on the clock to test drive. Surprisingly, it was in mint condition, even the engine bay looked almost new. The interior materials aren’t anything to write home about, but it looks nice and was fairly well laid out. The Durango’s cabin is a nice place to spend time. The sound quality from the stereo and the Hemi’s exhaust note were a highlight.

For practicality, the third row had the most room besides the Odyssey; and there was still good cargo space with the seats up. It has the worst MPG out of the four in this blog, and being the sporty choice, it’s tougher to keep your foot out of the gas. Reliability seems tentatively positive for the 5.7L. People report premature water pump issues and some electrical gremlins with the stereo. But compared to the Flex, the water pump on the Hemi is in a normal location and easy to service.  I have a co-worker who has two Durangos and loves them. They haven’t crested the 100k mark but he hasn’t had any issues. I’d have no problem driving this truck every day.

Final Thoughts

There is one thing that struck me doing this research besides the revelation that I want to daily a truck. In this $13-20k price range, all these vehicles are of a similar vintage (2012-2019) with 80-180k miles on the clock. It is remarkable how in just about every category besides interior space and looks, the Lexus wins handily. The ride, interior layout and materials, bulletproof reliability, stereo sound quality, the GX takes the cake. And after several decades of wrenching pain, it would be great to have a daily I don’t have to worry about. There’s never been a vehicle whose looks I barely remember that I liked so much.

I’d also be perfectly happy with the Durango or Flex. There are way more examples of those vehicles to choose from. I’d just have to live with a little nagging in the back of my mind about potential reliability problems. For pure pragmatism, the Odyssey wins. It has the most room in all three rows, including the cargo area, although it may be overkill for just two kiddos. The gas mileage isn’t great, but its better than the competition here. There is a reason why people who switch to minivans love them.

So dear friends, what do you think? Am I just trying to rationalize some hidden insecurity about biting the bullet and buying a minivan?  Are there other vehicles I need to test drive before making a decision? Am I in fact, stupid? My fate is in your hands, dear Autopians. I look forward to your thoughts.