I’m pretty sure this is going to be a contentious Autopian Asks, but I think it’s still an interesting question. We, as automotive enthusiasts, love whatever specific kinds of cars the Car God has decided to afflict upon us, and those cars aren’t always the safest cars. Whether it be by age or design traits or build quality or whatever, we often find ourselves hopelessly smitten by vehicles that we’d really, really prefer not to be in a wreck in. And many of us have kids, kids we wish to take places and share the joy of our car obsessions with. When the cars we have and love aren’t really all that safe, how do we reconcile that? Or do we?
Let’s be honest here, when it comes to safety, most of the really interesting and collectible cars are, by modern standards, unsafe. Hell, pretty much anything from before the 1990s is an absolute deathtrap by modern standards. But that wasn’t that big a deal, since parents didn’t start to actually love their kids until, what, the late 1980s or so?
Ubiquitous airbags and anti-lock brakes and lane departure warnings and advanced crumple zones and all of that sort of thing are all relatively new. Would you take your kid in a car that lacked such features?
I would. I mean, I did. And, still do. I’m not saying this is a decision anyone should emulate (and I recognize economic factors that might make this less of a choice and more of a necessity), but that’s just what I seem to have done. Before my son Otto was born, my cars were a 1973 Reliant Scimitar GTE, a 1973 Volkswagen Beetle, and our “modern” car, a 1982 VW Rabbit Convertible. When we knew Otto was coming in 2010, we decided to sell the Rabbit and get a “modern” car, a 2000 VW Passat Wagon, the V6 AWD one.
That car had airbags and was decades newer than anything we had; it seemed a relatively responsible thing for a new parent to do. And then, the same week when the boy came into the world, the fuel pump failed.
So, Otto’s first automotive trips were strapped into a safe, approved child seat belted into an unsafe, unapproved little archaic car with a design that was basically from 1938: my Beetle.
We eventually got the Passat fixed and used that as well, but I also frequently drove Otto around in the Beetle, and he loved it.
It was noisy and bouncy and looked like a giant toy, all pluses when you’re a toddler. We drove all over in that Beetle, though I would avoid taking him on long highway trips in it, for whatever that was worth.
Other parents would give me the stench-eye sometimes when they saw me pulling him out of that little yellow car, as they unloaded their children from Audi and Volvo SUVs. More than once in the pre-school pickup line I got some condescendingly “concerned” questions, and at least once got a very self-righteous lecture that suggested that maybe I was unqualified to have children at all.
Then again, plenty of other fellow parents were delighted to see a bright yellow old Beetle around, and the kids all loved it. I’d let them climb in and on it, honk the horn and enjoy that funny, distinctive Beetle smell. I feel like I got more positive responses than negative, though I’m sure things would be very different if, heaven and hell forbid, I actually was in a serious crash with him in the car.
Even though I drove my kid in an objectively unsafe car for years, and still do, I’m conflicted: Am I being a terrible parent? Am I being selfish? Is the fun we have together in the car and the way the car brought us together, and gave my son an appreciation for cars, is that worth the danger I was putting him in, potentially?
I don’t know. I know what the technical “correct” answer is – keep your kid as safe as possible, however possible – but if that’s your only rule in life, you and your kid will miss out on a lot, and you’d probably never let your kid walk on a sidewalk or ride a bike on a public street or climb trees or eat candy or pills they find on the street, and who wants that?
I’m kidding about the found candy or pills. Those are for adults.
I’m really curious to hear all of your opinions, by the way – do you take your kids in your beloved, unsafe cars? With restrictions, and, if so, what are they? Am I actually a terrible parent, or just a partially terrible parent? There’s a lot to discuss here.
I have ferried my kids in:
All bad ideas, but thankfully no injuries.
I was raised in the back of a 1965 Chevy II wagon, then a ’69 Ford Galaxie 500 followed by a 1972 Mercury Monterey Custom.
Car seats were never a consideration.
If it was good enough for me – it’s good enough for my (non-existant) children.
I don’t have kids and don’t ever intend to have kids, but I’d happily put them in an 80’s BMW without airbags.
I do this to my kids. E28 is what rides them around
A fellow person of culture!
My favorite local (DK) legislation story:
Front seat belts became mandatory here in 1969.
Rear seat belts became mandatory here in 1989.
So yes, JT, you’re quite right: Before the late eighties nobody cared about kids..
“So yes, JT, you’re quite right: Before the late eighties nobody cared about kids..”
The car I put the Love Seat in was a 1968 Ford Cortina GT, which was the least
safe car I ever put one of my children in, even though it was a great car.
In their day those early carseats were called “orphan makers” since they were sufficiently better-than-nothing and adults generally didn’t wear seat belts.
Thought I wanted a Lotus Cortina , then saw those tiny wheels in person, and read about reliability issues, and decided against them.
I was born in 1970. My first specialty child conveyance was a used chicken coop in a Karmann Ghia. Apparently I rode cross country in it (GA to CA.)
My aunt was the doctor who somehow persuaded GM to sell the love seat. Basically the idea is the child would smack into the love seat early on in a frontal crash so that by the time there was serious deceleration the child was pressed against the seat. Padding didn’t do much besides getting filthy. The alternative of course was for the car to come to a sudden stop with the child continuing at speed until it hit something.
I’ve seen some modern school buses, but most are antiquated death traps like I was transported in 50 years ago! Their high center of gravity, lots of exposed metal interior, no seat belts back then, combined with many sub-par drivers, always struck me as “We Have to do Better!”
I got banged around in the school bus WAY more than in the family car.
You’re not wrong about the potential for injury & death in modern school buses. However, the number of injuries per passenger-mile in buses of all types is infinitesimal. That’s why we don’t see mandatory air bags and seatbelts in buses.
School bus drivers receive more training and pass more rigorous driving and written tests than regular, C-class drivers. Also, school bus drivers are subject to random drug and alcohol tests.
School buses are among the safest mode of transportation there is. The primary protection is the mass of the bus itself.
My hometown bought some buses with seatbelts. After about the third ER visit the first year because one of the little darlings whacked another little darling in the head with the buckle, they were swiftly removed.
I daily a JDM Miata and take the kids in it all the time. If I’m willing to daily it and the passenger airbag is either non-existent or able to be turned off, I’ll take kids in it. I don’t think I’d take them on a motorcycle anymore but that’s probably the only place I’d draw a line.
Every Miata is a relatively modern car compared to a classic VW or British roadster. Seems responsible enough to me.
I actually put seat belts in the back bench seat in my 1967 MGB-GT so the kids could ride around with me and my wife as a daily. Our other car was a ’71 VW Bus, where your legs were the crumple zone. Sketchy, sketchy, sketchy….. What was I thinking??
Morgan Plus Four
Bonus points if it has the swing arm suspension.
Morgans never had swing axles. They used sliding pillar front suspension ala early Lancias.
Thanks for the correction.
As with anything, I think it depends on where you live.
Anywhere with an average speed-limit of 45 mph or higher, I would give an older car a second thought (but probably do it anyway). In a major city where you’re stuck in traffic or puttering around at 30mph? I wouldn’t even give it pause.
Hell, I see parents transporting their kids along busy Chicago streets on bicycles with what looks to be a wheelbarrow attached to the front.
My first reaction to questions like this is to roll my eyes and shout “won’t SOMEBODY think of the CHILDREN!”. Just because you put your kids in the safest car on the market doesn’t mean your kid isn’t going to lie across the top of seats on the school bus and pretend to be Superman while the driver isn’t looking.
Full disclosure: I do not have kids because they’re gross.
We make a lot of assumptions about whether the world is objectively safer now than it was “when we were children”. I knew more kids as a child who were injured being hit by cars than being hurt being in one. Yes cars are objectively safer today then they were then. On the other hand, kids are logging far more miles in vehicles today than they were 40 years ago. A few trips around town in your “unsafe” car is probably not appreciably more risky today than it was 40 years ago. Sadly, where once the leading cause of death of children under 19 was motor vehicle accidents, now it’s firearms.
Last sentence is only applicable for the US I guess…
“Even though I drove my kid in an objectively unsafe car for years, and still do, I’m conflicted: Am I being a terrible parent? Am I being selfish? Is the fun we have together in the car and the way the car brought us together, and gave my son an appreciation for cars, is that worth the danger I was putting him in, potentially?”
I have struggled with this multiple times in the 3 years my daughter has been alive. My daughter loves cars. From the moment she could hold a toy, I have inundated her with little classic VW Beetle and Bus toys, hotwheels, and even plushies along with her (what feels like millions) of other “normal” toys. I’ve done this because I LOVE my old 68 Bug. It’s a dream car for me, filled with memories of restoring it for years with my dad. I want to forge memories like that with her and the car, but I’m too damn scared to drive her anywhere in it.
I even went to the trouble of installing rear belts so that I could mount her car seat in it, but I’ve never left my neighborhood with her in the car. The cause of this fear stems back to a really bad wreck that I was involved in a few years back that totalled my old Crosstrek (lady was texting, blew a stop sign, and I hit her at 60) and resulted in an injury to my neck. If I was in my bug when that happened, I would unequivocally be dead. Because of that, every time I want to put her in the car to go enjoy a cars & coffee with me, I just wimp out. The what if factor is a hard one to overcome.
In summary; I don’t think you’re being a terrible parent at all. Everybody makes their own decisions. You’re just braver than me haha.
You’ve got very valid reasons to be uncomfortable, that little voice of trauma is a real nag.
But… The thing is, we just live in a generally dangerous world. There will be many times where your daughter is out facing situations where risk is involved which have nothing at all to do with cars. Something anywhere could always go horribly wrong when you least expect it no matter where you are or what you’re doing or how many safety systems are supposed to stop it. So do we live our whole lives paranoid about what might happen, but most likely won’t? Or do we mitigate what risks we can through safe behavior, and just enjoy life with our loved ones?
I don’t think there would be anything wrong with taking your daughter to a cars and coffee in the bug, so long as you keep your head on a swivel and practice defensive driving. That’s all anyone can do, so it’s enough. IMO there’s more lasting value in a great bonding experience than just another “safe” modern drive. Everything worth doing is risky, but that doesn’t mean the reward isn’t worth it.
Obviously though, that’s your decision to make, not mine, and regardless of what you decide, you’re being a great parent simply for caring about it.
You raise a lot of great points, and I certainly would love to create experiences with her in that car as she grows up. Once spring comes around and car season starts back up here in the midwest, I think I’ll try to make a few little trips with her. Like you said, defensive driving goes a long way. I certainly have become way more defensive of a driver in the last 2 years since that wreck. Thanks for the input, much appreciated!
No problem 🙂 Hope you two make some great memories doing that!
I rode around on the back of my grandpa’s Honda Goldwing as a kid, and every kid should have the opportunity to do the same. Doesn’t get much less safe than a motorcycle!
For what it’s worth, there’s probably about a billion kids globally being transported on two wheels every single day.
I also sat on the bungie-corded rolling office chair in the back of my uncle’s locksmith service van (only two seats up front) when he’d drive me and my cousin places. It’s fineeee
Yeah my dad had a 75(?) I think Honda CB500 I would beg to ride on the back and he would indulge me fairly often. Or all the times I would ride in the back of a pickup with a bunch of other kids and adults.
Kids today still get to play football and other contact sports. They do all sorts of risky things. Life is filled with risk-reward assessments.
I wouldn’t take my kid on a cross-country trip in a Pinto but around town while maybe showing them how to be careful and being vigilant? I don’t see any issue with that.
My mom used to tell the story of trying to hold 5yo sleepy me on the back of her scooter while driving in Kyoto. But, back then, a sturdy Midwestern woman there would catch everyone’s attention
Spending meaningful time in much of Asia really makes you appreciate the possibility of a 125cc scooter as a family vehicle!
Hero status achieved!
Anything other than a 60’s era VW Microbus.
I had a 58, where does that fit?
Perhaps only scarier… I’m just terrified of me and my child being the actual crumple zone.
And don’t get me wrong, I think those vans are very cool looking and marvels of packaging and engineering. I just don’t want to drive one in this era of mis-driven Ford-n50 pickups, 3-ton+ EVs etc.
Do what let’s you sleep at night. I don’t let this stuff bother me. Course I rode motorcycles for years, cycled in busy downtown cores, and drove far too many old cars. My kids all did and do the same. We didn’t have the luxury of ‘safe’ cars when they were young.
I don’t know what’s least safe, my little Figaro with the small wheels – or the very old Porsche 356… But my kids love them both! And they think I’m the best dad ever for not having something boring and ordinary.
Last time I was at fault in a minor accident, was 31 years ago. Take that into account, instead of counting airbags or EuroNcap stars or something…
That Cozy Coupe they took around in ain’t got no airbags neither.
I went down the cellar stars in one of those things and was knocked out as a kid. Probably explains a lot about me today.
Realistically most things designed after the late 90s are probably a bit of a wash with modern cars, I’d think. That was when manufacturers by and large stopped screwing around with rejiggering crap platforms from the 1980s and dispensed with nonsense like door mounted seatbelts; especially since that’s when small offset overlap crash testing started being done by NHTSA and showed how awful those cars were structurally.
My kid got a ride in a 1930 Model A. On public roads, nonetheless! In a parade tossing candy out the window. It was a great experience. Having no seat belts along with a metal dash at forehead height when pitching forward when seated gave a new perspective on how safe new cars are.
When I was around 12, I went to an airshow with my brother and father. This would have been 1992 or so. You could buy tickets to a ride in an open-cockpit biplane. Of course my dad let my brother and I do it. I guess there was probably a seatbelt for an adult, but we went at the same time. My mom was livid when she found out.
I have driven my daughter to school on the back of a motorcycle since 3rd grade. we got plenty of stink eyes, but so be it. the most dangerous car I ever seemed to own was a silver 2013 Passat. it was so invisible to other drivers it was rear-ended twice and t-boned once.
I did once take the little to school in a 1971 scout that needed floors. That was honestly the one that was probably the most dangerous at the time since the exhaust just leaked right up into the cabin, but there was no roof to hold it in. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
Kids change your mindset. You realize that a safe car is important.
As some people already said: daily drive is one thing, occasionally is another completely different.
I would avoid them on something barely unsafe. Probably, the maximum I would tolerate is any car with minor maintenance neglected.
Minor = can wait until the next weekend or so.
If I realize something is serious, I would avoid as much as I could, unless is too hard to do it.
Ive driven my (nieces) around in my 20 year old mustang, wifes jeep with doors off, and I would happily drive my own nonexistant kids in my 88 Comanche.
Kids have bigger dangers. Like my niece at the mall sat on a bench, then saw a powder next to her! That could be dangerous. Instead, she leans over, yells pixie sticks, and licks it up. My slightly old car is far from the biggest danger to kids- the biggest danger to kids is kids themselves.
This! Stairs or a pool are way more dangerous than a relatively unsafe car.
The real danger around a 2004 Mustang is to those outside the car, obviously.
I currently daily drive my 9-year-old in a 1998 BMW 3-series. When she was a baby, I used to daily her around in a 1982 Mercedes 300td wagon.
She goes to private school, and I think she’s thiiiiiiis close to being embarrassed. If not now, then defiantly in a few years.
When the time comes, just tell her that your car is “vintage”. Dress accordingly (like if you are still in 90’s) and tell the other dads that it is your favorite in your “collection”.
I owned a heavily rusted 67 VW Beetle and have no kids. I did drive around two children when I was visiting friends on Cape Cod many decades ago. One of them stepped on the running board and it fell off. No injuries. No crashes though drove it through several winters.
My 4 year old absolutely loves climbing up into the (front) car seat in the Express 2500. “It’s so tall!!!” I’m not a fan of lugging her around in this thing, but sometimes it’s the only option.
Her “yellow bus” is a ‘73 Squareback currently sitting in the garage awaiting restoration and an EV or Turbo EFI drivetrain when funds allow — so maybe by the time she’s old enough to drive?
Daily driving is quite a bit different than occasional cruises or drives in town in fun cars IMO.
I have no problem driving my kids in just about anything in the latter circumstance, but I probably wouldn’t put them in anything under a decade old for daily driving, long trips on the highway, etc.
My 2 year old’s favorite thing in the world is my NA Miata. Can’t disable the airbags, so it’s going to be a long while before she get a proper ride.
I mean, any airbags can be disabled if you really want to. Usually can be unplugged pretty easily.
Does an NA Miata have a passenger airbag?
NA Miatas do not have a passenger airbag. At least not the early ones like mine.
Can’t disable it if it doesn’t exist :p
I’d say kids are as safe as adults riding in a Miata.
NA6 (1990-1993) have no passenger airbags. NA8 (1994-1997) do.