I’m pretty sure this is going to be a contentious Autopian Asks, but I think it’s still an interesting question. We, as automotive enthusiasts, love whatever specific kinds of cars the Car God has decided to afflict upon us, and those cars aren’t always the safest cars. Whether it be by age or design traits or build quality or whatever, we often find ourselves hopelessly smitten by vehicles that we’d really, really prefer not to be in a wreck in. And many of us have kids, kids we wish to take places and share the joy of our car obsessions with. When the cars we have and love aren’t really all that safe, how do we reconcile that? Or do we?
Let’s be honest here, when it comes to safety, most of the really interesting and collectible cars are, by modern standards, unsafe. Hell, pretty much anything from before the 1990s is an absolute deathtrap by modern standards. But that wasn’t that big a deal, since parents didn’t start to actually love their kids until, what, the late 1980s or so?
Ubiquitous airbags and anti-lock brakes and lane departure warnings and advanced crumple zones and all of that sort of thing are all relatively new. Would you take your kid in a car that lacked such features?
I would. I mean, I did. And, still do. I’m not saying this is a decision anyone should emulate (and I recognize economic factors that might make this less of a choice and more of a necessity), but that’s just what I seem to have done. Before my son Otto was born, my cars were a 1973 Reliant Scimitar GTE, a 1973 Volkswagen Beetle, and our “modern” car, a 1982 VW Rabbit Convertible. When we knew Otto was coming in 2010, we decided to sell the Rabbit and get a “modern” car, a 2000 VW Passat Wagon, the V6 AWD one.
That car had airbags and was decades newer than anything we had; it seemed a relatively responsible thing for a new parent to do. And then, the same week when the boy came into the world, the fuel pump failed.
So, Otto’s first automotive trips were strapped into a safe, approved child seat belted into an unsafe, unapproved little archaic car with a design that was basically from 1938: my Beetle.
We eventually got the Passat fixed and used that as well, but I also frequently drove Otto around in the Beetle, and he loved it.
It was noisy and bouncy and looked like a giant toy, all pluses when you’re a toddler. We drove all over in that Beetle, though I would avoid taking him on long highway trips in it, for whatever that was worth.
Other parents would give me the stench-eye sometimes when they saw me pulling him out of that little yellow car, as they unloaded their children from Audi and Volvo SUVs. More than once in the pre-school pickup line I got some condescendingly “concerned” questions, and at least once got a very self-righteous lecture that suggested that maybe I was unqualified to have children at all.
Then again, plenty of other fellow parents were delighted to see a bright yellow old Beetle around, and the kids all loved it. I’d let them climb in and on it, honk the horn and enjoy that funny, distinctive Beetle smell. I feel like I got more positive responses than negative, though I’m sure things would be very different if, heaven and hell forbid, I actually was in a serious crash with him in the car.
Even though I drove my kid in an objectively unsafe car for years, and still do, I’m conflicted: Am I being a terrible parent? Am I being selfish? Is the fun we have together in the car and the way the car brought us together, and gave my son an appreciation for cars, is that worth the danger I was putting him in, potentially?
I don’t know. I know what the technical “correct” answer is – keep your kid as safe as possible, however possible – but if that’s your only rule in life, you and your kid will miss out on a lot, and you’d probably never let your kid walk on a sidewalk or ride a bike on a public street or climb trees or eat candy or pills they find on the street, and who wants that?
I’m kidding about the found candy or pills. Those are for adults.
I’m really curious to hear all of your opinions, by the way – do you take your kids in your beloved, unsafe cars? With restrictions, and, if so, what are they? Am I actually a terrible parent, or just a partially terrible parent? There’s a lot to discuss here.
Boomer here. I don’t even think about it. When our daughter was old enough- feet could securely rest on the passenger pegs, i gave our daughter rides on my motorcycle. With helmet and protective gear, of course. I did the same thing when I was a kid, but no protective gear in the early ‘60s.
Just drive careful and smart. The best protection.
Dodge Journey
Gen X here so caveat this with all the “child seats? My mom’s arm was the seatbelt” type history. And also I’m not a parent, but was a kid, and one of my earliest/fondest memories is of riding at the front of seat/tank of my Dad’s Norton Commando down the main street of the town we grew up in, spoiler, we lived.
Years later after they were divorced and my dad got us for the weekends he just had his truck that wouldn’t seat 4 of us up front(him, his fiance, me and my sister) so what to do, oh yeah let’s put the cap on the truck, some plywood in the back with some outdoor carpet on it, oh and rig up a radio for the kids to listen to back there, it’ll be fine, and there’s the pass through window if they want a snack, so that’s what we did for a while every weekend, 30 miles or so each way, spoiler, we still lived.
As you mentioned economics can definitely play a part, my dad didn’t have the money for another car for a while so made do with wagonifying the truck.
We also grew up with a nationwide 55mph speed limit and speedometers that only went to 85 so there was that.
As to the question, we are dog parents, and my wife is a bit of a helicopter with our pup, if we roll down the windows in the car she wants to hold his leash, we would never put him in the back of our truck, but he rides up front fine.
If we had toddler sized kids I would totally give them a ride in the single cab truck or on the back of the motorcycle geared up. We’d want them to enjoy life, not just eating cheerios strapped into the middle of a Carnival watching Bluey on their ipads, that’s where I should be, let the kids be out there living while they’re young and invulnerable.
My kids regularly ride in my brick nose obs f350 with a sticker on the back window that says “No airbags, we die like men.” Also brick and bull nose obs fords have NO crumple zones and until ’88 no abs at all, and after that only on the rear drums, so try not to get hit by one as it might just go right through whatever you’re in like a freight train.
Even if it’s an Aeronose like mine, the crumple zones are only on half tons and do very little. The ABS, if it somehow still works 30 years later, also does very little.
A lot of context here I think. If it’s a special occasion they could ride in anything (like if a friend had a model T and wanted to take them for a spin). If it’s more a fun Sunday driver type car that I’m going to own then it just needs to be mechanically sound, as far as brakes, suspension etc go, no sudden loses of control or anything. If it’s going to be the commuter daily then it’s going to be much more modern, but that’s as much because of what I’m willing to deal with, I’ve had a carbureted daily before and I’m not interested in going back! When we found out we were having our son I immediately bought a Volvo wagon, which was probably a slight overreaction, but maybe not, only had a motorcycle for myself at the time. As of next week though I’ll be a stay at home dad chauffeuring the little guy around in the BRZ though! Thanks for that “will it baby” on the FRS all those years ago Jason!
Forgot to mention in my own comment, mechanical perfection would absolutely be the standard the car has to meet for my hypothetical kids to ride in it. I’m not too worried about crumple zones or airbags, but every safety feature the car came with needs to be working reliably and flawlessly. I wouldn’t let kids anywhere near something that looks like it came out of “Roadkill,” but a meticulously maintained classic where everything functions properly is totally fine.
There is a section in my 1976 Cadillac owners manual about how your child can safely stand in a moving convertible. I don’t have kids but i did drive my 4 year old niece in it with the top down she had a blast.
A bicycle.
Mind you when I was a kid my mom carted three of us around town in a Triumph TR3. Some of my fondest memories were of her taking a corner and me literally hanging off the outboard side, feet flying in the air, clinging onto the rear deck and laughing maniacally the whole time.
You really had to be there to understand what a different time it was. Parents smoked in the same room, the same car, the same airline cabin as kids! Sometimes they’d smack a kid for *REASONS!*
Don’t believe me? Perhaps this random-not-my-ad on my local Craigslist will help:
(emphasis mine)
Look at the pictures, read my long origin story. Please let me know if you want more information and I will get it to you.
The tires don’t hold air. But if you want air, and you buy this bike, I will throw in a vintage bicycle air pump – see final picture!
Pick up available in Oakland or Orinda.
In the summer of 1975 I was 15 years old and going to summer school at Campolindo High School in Moraga, California. I lived in Orinda and attended Miramonte, but there I was at Campolindo. Campolindo and Moraga are far away from freeways and BART. It’s a pretty place but a very inconvenient place.
Every morning my mom would drive me and my bike 6½ miles to summer school, she would go on to Oakland to work with my dad, and I would bike home after school. Bicycle helmets weren’t invented yet, btw.
One day I came out of class to find my bike lock missing. I didn’t think much of it until the next day when my whole bike was missing. I don’t remember how I got home.
I tried to drop summer school but, incredibly, the principal did not think walking 6½ miles home everyday, in summer’s heat, mostly without sidewalks, was a big deal.
I needed a new bike. Incredibly again, to me, my parents wouldn’t buy me one or even loan me the money. I had to earn the money, which meant taking BART to Oakland after school and working for them. How I was going to get to BART was never discussed. In the ‘70s, your parents just let you figure it out.
I was a 15 year-old girl, btw.
I didn’t have friends at Campolindo. I didn’t know what to do. So I did what I saw boys sometime do – hitchhike. I hitchhiked down to Lafayette BART. My parents never knew. They asked me once how I got to BART, and I said I got a ride. They never asked with whom. This was normal 1970s parent behavior.
Finally one day I had enough money to buy a new bike. I went to Orinda Spoke & Pedal and bought this one. Most girls rode boys’ bikes in those days. I remember not particularly liking the orange color.
That November I turned 16 and got my drivers license. My mom picked me up after school on my birthday and took me to the DMV in Walnut Creek. That’s what everybody did.
Before getting my license I biked everywhere and all the time. Afterwards, hardly ever. My dad let me drive his 1967 Camaro. No shoulder belts, head rests, or AC. For a couple years in the early 1980s my brother drove from Orinda to Berkeley, parked, and rode this bike to campus. But after that the bike has sat unused in our basement or garage. It shared the garage with the Camaro, which just got sold on October 4.
It would be nice if someone rode it again!
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/orinda-1975-nishiki-olympic-bicycle/7793153404.html
My theory is (some) parents took out massive insurance policies on their kids and did their best to try to make it look like an accident…
Great story!
Back then I remember well how life worked. Only 2 years older than you.
Remember my old man saying I was worth a lot of money dead…
and if I didn’t straighten up fast, well “accidents’ happen. His go to remark was, “you are worth more to me dead than alive, don’t press your luck kid.”
When my folks split up I (15-16) thought nothing of hitch hiking rides then.
I thumbed several times from Mobile, AL. to Denver, CO. 3-4 times back then.
Of course this was before 48 Hours and Dateline on TV.
Parents got away with so much more back then.
What a guy! /s
My 14-year-old daughter and I recently took a roughly 1500 mile round trip in a 1990 Dodge Ram 50 4×4.
When she was on the way (also in 2010), I did finally retire my 1988 200SX from daily-driving duties and got something newer with airbags and stuff. But she still rides in the old deathtraps sometimes.
I want to see a picture of the Ram 50. Those are so rare now days!
https://www.instagram.com/sunset_truck_90/
I remember those from the brochure! Thank you so much for sharing! That’s so cool!
1971 VW bus, January in upstate New York, No heat, 2 kids, bundled in snow suits. I probably wouldn’t do it again, but, I am much older.
My dad would sometimes drive the whole family around in a restored ’64 Ford Galaxie 500. As part of the restoration, he did have seat belts (lap-style, of course) installed in the back, since apparently my grandfather saw this as too much of an extravagance when he ordered the vehicle. That means my mama spent part of her childhood traveling around the state while unbuckled (although, given her tendency to get car sick, this was probably the least of anyone’s concerns).
I don’t have kids, but…yeah, as long as they leave the snacks and drinks behind, they can hop in the ’97 ZJ. (Back seat, of course. I’m sure the airbags are dead by now, but that’s not a good chance to take.)
I took my kids to and from school on the back of my Honda Pacific Coast. They always wore a proper size, full face helmet, and as much protective gear as I could make them wear (good shoes, long pants, etc). If the other parents gave me the stink eye, I didn’t notice. When my son, who was in first grade at the time, would get off and unstrap his helmet, any of the kids who saw him seemed pretty impressed.
I remember seeing tons of parents doing this when we visited Italy, scooters and bikes of all kinds, all with gear and helmets. But also a different cultural perspective over there. They were all splitting lanes and weaving through traffic in the streets of Rome too!
When my older kids were little I used to drive them to school in a Subaru 360. My current daily driver is a 67 Nova. My wife has a Mirage, a little safer but still tiny. I don’t worry about it.
This is quite the article to run after the previous one about the “big, safe” GM SUVs whose transmissions can lock up at speed without warning…
I took my kids to and from school all the time in my MGB. Same with the NC Miata, but that’s way safer than the MGB.
I grew up riding all over in my Dads NB Miata!
In all seriousness I drove both my sons around in a NA Miata until middle school, with them left-hand shifting half the time.
Was it unsafe in an open-top car with a single airbag? Probably. But I think the experience conferred an early sense of situational awareness, road respect, and an understanding that you’re controlling a mechanical object. Something to be said for a front seat view of the world. When my youngest got his license I was pleased with how controlled and connected he was to his car, something he may not have gotten if exclusively nestled in the back of our Volvo.
So, maybe a little “unsafe” parenting leads to an inherently safer young driver?
Miata is always the answer . Have a 91 NA BRG that they’ll bury me in. Just make the hole big enough.
I dailied my kid in a NA Miata and an early ’80s Cherokee.
I have a 2012 Genuine Buddy 50. When my daughter was about 7 I began taking her on rides around our subdivision with it, she loves it. I made her wear her bike helmet and sunglasses, and she sat in front of me so I could have my arms on either side of her as I drove. The Buddy has a two-up seat, and rear footrests, so when we did this I put my feet there and she put her feet on the floorboard.
As far as I could tell in my research, there was no minimum age to ride as a passenger on a motorcycle in Illinois. But I couldn’t find out if it was legal to have the operator in the rear seating position, with the passenger in front. I posed the question to a couple different officers and none of them could give me a definitive answer. The last one told me, “I can’t find anything on it so I don’t see why not.”
Long story short, I told my daughter maybe someday for fun I can take her to school on the Buddy, she’s for it but doesn’t want to get in trouble! Luckily the school is only about a quarter mile from our house via a 30mph speed limit road.
To answer your question though, I wouldn’t daily with her on it, but she’s ridden in my non-airbag-equipped cars and it never worried me any.
I have no problem with my 13yo riding in my 1986 4Runner, as that is my current daily driver. If he was younger, I may have had a different opinion about it. Especially between the ages from 4-9.
As he is getting closer to driving age though, I would have a harder time letting him loose driving alone with anything that didn’t have side and front airbags. I will teach him to drive stick in the 4runner though.
White plumber van, FREE CANDY scrawled on the side.
When I was a toddler, my father owned a VW Superbeetle. I remember being in a car seat in the back when the Superbeetle was rear-ended while stopped at a red light. No one was hurt, but it could have turned out a lot differently. The Superbeetle was totaled, and replaced with an early 80s Toyota Celica.
I’m not a parent, but if I were, I’d take the kids in an “unsafe” vehicle. Even in a “safe” vehicle, you’re already taking a massive risk just being on the road in the first place.
A Mercedes 300 SDL I used to own would be a great choice. It’s safe enough, built like a bank vault, and very comfortable.
The electric Triumph GT6, only on rare occasions. THAT is a proper death trap.
Well, I didn’t drive my daughter around in air-cooled VWs in the winter when really cold, but otherwise I just drove defensively as usual.
Ah, I rode in the cubby behind the back seat in a 60’s Beetle when I was small. While my mom scraped the frost off the windshield and my siblings had their ankles cooked by the engine heater outlets, I was warm and toasty riding in that cubby on top of the engine.
I stuffed myself in that cubby up till maybe age 10 when it was just too much. When my daughter was born, I had a 72 Westy whose heater pipe had long since left the chat, so at temps below freezing, I just took the baby car complete w/ 4wd & heat
Not a daily driver, but we were at an air show when an older guy getting into a plane saw my daughter giving the plane a wistful stare. He hollered “I’ve got a spare seat, want a ride” and she climbed into the open cockpit… of a plane he never flew before… he was borrowing from his buddy… who built it in his garage to a 1930s design… anyway, Jason, I don’t see anything in your confessional above that even triggers a single concern in my mind.
“Unsafe” and “uncrashworthy” are two very different things. A car without airbags or rollover protection or anything is 110% safe if you and the people around you drive intelligently.
I don’t see why you wouldn’t drive your kids around in anything you’d drive yourself around in. And I don’t see why you wouldn’t drive yourself around in anything you rode around in as a kid, or that your parents drove.
For Daily driving, I would not drive my children in any vehicle that doesn’t have front and side airbags or 3 point seat belts .
Being unsafe in a car was how I got kids in the first place.
Corvair? 😉
Well the back seats do fold down!
Ha, that would be handy! I was alluding to “Unsafe at any Speed”
As a Corvair owner, I got the joke.
Ah!