“Stolen” Jeep or rusted-out Jeep — which should I convert to electric power? That’s the question that we — collectively as Autopians — must face today, for I have been flip-flopping on the decision for months. Now I come to you for guidance.
I’ve been wrenching on junky Jeeps for a while now, rebuilding AMC 360 V8 engines, replacing cracked cylinder heads on AMC straight-six enginesc, tuning carter W-0 carburetors on Willys Go-Devil motors, replacing synchros and bearings in manual transmissions, extracting broken exhaust studs, and on and on. While I’m far from an expert when it comes to internal combustion engine vehicle repair (given that I haven’t worked on much from this millennium), I’m ready to branch out. It’s time for an electric conversion.
This won’t be cheap, and it won’t be easy. But it will be happening, and soon (ish). The first issue I need to tackle is: I have to decide which vehicle to use as a platform for the build. Here are my options:
The Rusty FC From Washington
Perhaps my greatest achievement in life occurred almost exactly a year ago when I resurrected the rusty, long-dead 1958 Willys FC-170 you see in the video above. I probably sacrificed seven years of life expectancy from all the mouse feces I inhaled (and we can’t forget the trenchfoot I got while sleeping in my Land Cruiser), but it was somehow worth it. Just look at that $1,500 monster off-road for seven hours straight after having sat on a farm for probably 20 years (at least).
Anyway, I fell in love with the blue FC during that trip, and it was my intention to use it as the basis for an EV conversion. There’s only one issue: Someone offered me a nicer (but sketchier) FC after seeing me wrench on this old rustbucket; I’ll show you that later.
For now, I’ll present the case for using this FC as the platform for my EV build:
- It’s long, so there’s plenty of room for batteries.
- It’s wide. The frame is wider than that of the “stolen” Jeep, so I could fit a Tesla drive unit between the rails.
- The paperwork is all there.
- The frame is solid.
- It’s worthless, so I’m not foregoing much money by keeping it (more on cost later).
- It has “patina,” and is just generally interesting/compelling to look at/read about.
- I have a sentimental attachment to it after that epic trip.
Now for the cons:
- It’s rusted out. To fix the body and make it look good would cost many thousands of dollars, which would far offset whatever money I save by selling the “stolen” Jeep and keeping this worthless one.
- If I spend $15,000 on the EV conversion, the Jeep will still only be worth a few grand, max. It’ll be lost money.
- The windshield is cracked. This will be expensive to replace, as the glass is curved; replacements are hard to find.
- The vehicle does run and drive as-is, so it’d be throwing out a working powertrain.
The ‘Stolen’ Jeep
This little red FC looks to be in decent shape. I bought it from a fairly sketchy seller in a more-than-fairly sketchy warehouse in suburban Michigan. The seller had seen my friends and me wrenching on ol’ blue, and figured maybe I wanted another. He figured right.
I ignored about a thousand red flags and bought the short 1957 FC for $2,000. It came with no title, and it has no VIN. In other words, I cannot register this vehicle — at least not until I figure this paperwork thing out. I do have a line on a cheap 1957 old FC-150 being sold for parts, with a title; I could create a Ship Of Theseus situation and use the other Jeep’s paperwork…
I met my red Jeep’s previous owner, a rambunctious 86 year-old man who lives on a farm in the middle of suburbia. It really is a bizzare place; here’s this older couple living in a small cottage on a few acres, and just on the other side of their fence sit dozens of condos and strip malls. This gentleman, a cranky but decent guy who still wrenches on his John Deere tractor, made it clear that his land would never fall to the developers. “I got all this land on a trust!” he exclaimed to me, clearly passionate about the issue.
Anyway, none of that is really relevant, other than to indicate that I don’t actually think my FC was stolen. This older gentleman said he owned it for decades and gave it to the man who sold it to me. “You actually paid money for that piece of shit?” he asked me, angry with the guy he’d sold it to. “I can’t believe he charged you for that scrap.”
I actually don’t think the Jeep is that bad. It sure looks nicer than the blue FC-170, even if much of its body is just patch panels lathered in Bondo:
Anyway, let’s talk about the pros and cons of using this thing as the basis for my electric vehicle build. First, the pros:
- The body looks nice.
- The interior looks mostly done.
- The engine is already seized, so who cares if I throw it out.
- If I spend $15,000 converting this thing to an electric vehicle, it might still be worth some amount of money. I could recoup some of the costs if I sell it down the line, since it looks okay.
Now for the cons:
- No title, no VIN. Registering this Jeep will be a pain in the arse.
- It’s short; room for batteries would be limited.
- It’s narrow, so fitting a Tesla drive unit between the frame rails could be a challenge.
- It’s a big lie; it looks nice, but much of it is riveted sheetmetal and bondo.
- I’d be foregoing the value of this Jeep (I’d guess it’s around $5,000) by selling the worthless blue Jeep instead.
It’s a tough choice. The blue Jeep has a great story behind it, and it has paperwork. It’s crappy, but it’s at least honest about it. Plus, if I sell the red Jeep, I’ll make $5,000. That’s not really much if you compare it to the $15,000 it might take to convert one of these Jeeps to electric. And certainly, if I plan to actually make the blue Jeep look nice, that’s going to cost another $5,000+ if I had to guess. So in the end, the blue Jeep would be pricier if I decided I wanted to fix it up. I could just keep it as-is, and have an EV-converted ol’ rustbucket. I kind of like the way it looks now, to be honest. Why does it have to be completely rust-free and nice to be worthy of an electric vehicle conversion? Maybe that’s a silly question.
I guess part of the issue could be that using a rough-looking Jeep as a basis for an electric vehicle conversion guarantees that the entire investment will be a moneypit. No matter how nice that blue Jeep drives, if it looks like it does, it may not be worth anything. But what if I don’t sell it? I could also just suck it up and do the bodywork on it; a nice EV-converted FC-170 would be worth something, I bet. Or I could just convert the red one and drive it as-is after I figure out the paperwork issue, and after I figure out how to fit a Tesla drive unit between those frame rails. Oh, and after I make sure it’s not completely made of Bondo.
I really don’t know what the move is, here.
If you’re going with a motor-driveshaft-axle drivetrain route, take the one with the strongest frame. The instantaneous torque of electric motors will be hard on the frame torsionally.
I would go with a solid e-axle setup hanging on leaf springs, much easier packaging and frees up the frame rails for the batteries. Frees up the engine compartment for the cooling setup and the plumbing the electric drive plumbing you’ll need for powering the brakes and power steering.
It really seems like, if you’re going to do this, the blue one is the more feasible option. Save the stock drivetrain and put it aside for if you ever get around to rebuilding the red one
I’d convert the blue one. You can sort the frame issues or find a clean donor frame. A boat builder or racing company will make a windshield for you out of lexan or plexiglass probably cheaper than finding a replacement windshield.
Another vote for the blue Jeep. Aside from all of the other reasons already listed, here’s a silly one to add to the pile: you’re from Michigan. Go Blue!
If you do the blue one, get rid of that lame-oid rear bumper. It totally ruins the look.
Why not both? Use the blue for the full Tesla motor conversion since it’ll work better with the size of the frame. For the red one, find a wrecked Chevy Volt and put the hybrid powertrain and smaller battery pack in that. Best of both worlds.
$5,000 allows you to buy some other shitbox Jeep rusting away in a field somewhere.
Swap the working drive-train from the blue Jeep into the red Jeep, convert the blue Jeep, keep both. Now you have two running and driving FC Jeeps.
red jeep, so you can sell me that plow pump as previously discussed, lol.
Seriously though, the blue jeep is the better candidate from a theoretical standpoint with the wider axles and longer wheelbase.
BUT the red jeep is better from the standpoint that you don’t need to deal with as much rust and all the glass is good.
Either has enough room for batteries, if you make a raised load floor for the bed and stash the batteries underneath.
This dilemma is a philosophical conundrum, much like Morton’s Fork or Buridan’s Ass. Either pick is bad, bad, bad. Investing $15k and oodles of time – perhaps a beater XJ will result in a more pleasant and safer daily driver worthy of the E performance you’ll be getting. Just review some of Rob Emslie’s NPOND picks considered “someone else’s project” on that website not to be named. But I guess I’m trying to convince you to be too practical. On your head, be it!!
David, how many times in your life as an engineer have you complained about bean counters a managers forcing you to take the cheaper and faster route even thought it was the technically interior solution?
It happened a lot to me and that frustrated me to no end. You are your own manager on this, choose the blue FC with space for the hardware. It’ll be enough of an adventure to do the conversion plus you get to try your hand at sheet metal work.
Take your revenge on management. Go hard on blue and give us a nice 3 year long story.
Keep the blue one. You can get $5k for the red one right? Take the $5k. You are going to spend the money anyway, you’ll never recover it. Or use the red one for parts… either way we all know you want to keep the blue one
I’d suggest having a chat with Super Fast Matt about this project.
I am refusing to vote because I found you a perfectly good FC that had been sitting out in the desert and had only a small amount of surface rust. Patina, not rusted through everywhere. The price was $800 and you said no because it did not have a title or engine. And here we are.
The blue has a pretty good wrenching story and a lot of memories. It is a bucket of urine soaked rust and converting it to EV will ultimately just be endless frustration that ends in nothing but a hole in your wallet and a pile of toxic dust. The red one is solid enough that you’ll have something to weld to. You’ll be able to come up with something that will look like a FC. My EV advice would be to avoid the Tesla and get an E-crate setup from GM. Other option would be buy a drivable Nissan Leaf and use every bit of the high voltage system. Put the transaxle in place of the T-case. It won’t be a high speed vehicle but you’ll have 4 wheel drive and lots of torque. The Leaf is dead simple and doesn’t even cool the battery, I think it also has fewer of those pesky safety interlocks that will ultimately frustrate you. It really is the Model T of EVs. Heck, just register it as a Leaf. Title problem solved 🙂
Blue. I trust the rust I can see more than I trust the Bondo covering god knows what. I think it would be cool to look like a rustbucket on the outside but be a modern EV underneath. Cars aren’t normally an appreciating investment, anyway.
Um… both? Combine the two using the best parts of both. I guess keep the blue frame for the vin, and go from there.
I’m more attached to the blue.
I think you underestimate how much a structurally good car with a really scrappy looking body is actually worth. The blue one, with a properly repaired frame, an at least clean and functional interior, and whatever drivetrain you put in, is something someone would buy. Would you get your money back? Probably not, but I don’t think you would with the red one either.
I also don’t think the red one is worth $5K, either – not only doesn’t it run it has a lot of farm-spec “repairs” done to it.
Sell Red and use the money toward Blue. Someone will want one that isn’t totally slathered in FeO2. You have an affinity for vehicles that have generous coats of that substance, so keep it going.
David, I’m really interested in what the goals are for the conversion (e.g. power, range). You mention the Tesla drive unit, which depending on what you mean by that, could result in an exceedingly rapid trip to the morgue.
The joy of instant torque and the ability to fling itself down the drag strip is an EV’s party trick, but a bit like the Mercedes concept that just did a 1,000km trip, I think going with lower (but still sufficient) power would still provide more than enough adventure. Making the FC live and be practical (decent range and usability) and unusual would be a triumph.
Although making it AWD would add a certain technical (and practical?) excellence.
I hope you go with the Blue one, and that unlike the budget constraints that put the brakes on this project at your former employer, you manage to engage some experts and get it done, taking us along for the ride.
Tough choice! Some pretty compelling reasons to go either way here… Part of me just wants to say go with blue because, well, it’s kind of become the “official color” of electric things.
Now you’re speaking my language! Another vote for Ol’ Blue here. I’ll also make it less of a gamble for you, and offer to buy it once you finish – should you choose not to keep it – for 75% of whatever you put into it.
I say red Jeep but I don’t know how difficult things are in Michigan paperwork wise. If you decide to go with the blue one I would be more than happy to buy the red one if that old man would sign an affidavit for me.
old blue has more potential.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0520-414227/1957-willys-fc-150/