The RV industry may soon be delivered a gut punch, and weirdly it’s not going to be from demand swings. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has amended its regulations and will require the manufacturers of motorhomes with a gross weight of over 8,500 pounds to sell an increasing number of EVs. There’s just one problem: No RV manufacturer currently sells a heavy electric motorhome. In effect, California and five other states may inadvertently ban the sale of new motorhomes in only a few weeks’ time.
This news comes to us from SFGate and paints a dark picture for the battered but recovering RV market. RV sales hit all-time records during the COVID-19 pandemic, then fell off a cliff after people stopped buying RVs for numerous reasons. The RV Industry Association expects America’s RV builders to ship 324,100 units this year, far down from 2021’s all-time record of 600,240 shipments. To illustrate the change in demand, RV sales have plummeted to a level not seen since 2013.
Thankfully, the RVIA says, sales are trending in an upward direction with this year closing out better than 2023 and with next year looking to be an even better year. That might not be the case if California, New York, New Jersey, Washington, Oregon, and Massachusetts move forward on stringent emissions requirements that would push motorhome diesel engines out of the market.
I will be clear right from the bat. You’re going to read a bunch of headlines saying that California may ban the sale of new motorhomes. This is not strictly true. California did not ban motorhomes and motorhome manufacturers do have a path to continue selling ICE vehicles in these six states. However, California’s changes would make selling large motorhomes substantially harder, essentially giving the effect of a ban.
This breaking story was originally reported on by RV Travel early this month, but now thanks to SFGate‘s reporting we know a little more. According to SFGate, CARB has amended its Advanced Clean Truck regulations in late October. You can view the meeting by clicking here, just be aware it’ll take hours of your time to get through the whole thing. The rule will require the manufacturers of trucks and motorhomes with a gross vehicle weight rating of over 8,500 pounds to produce a percentage of zero-emission vehicles.
The new rules kick off in 2025 and the percentage of zero-emission vehicles that must be built by a manufacturer is set to increase gradually until 2035, the year when California hopes to completely phase out the sales of all other internal combustion vehicles. California plans that every truck sold in the state will be zero-emission by a later date.
The Advanced Clean Trucks rule was successfully adopted by CARB in 2020. According to the rule as originally adopted, makers of medium-duty and heavy-duty trucks were required to begin building a small percentage of zero-emission vehicles beginning in 2024 and gradually rising from there. Here’s a chart:
To help you read that a little better, I’ll give you a key. Class 2b-3 is for on-road trucks with a GVWR between 8,501 and 14,000 pounds. Class 4-8 is for on-road trucks with a GVWR greater than or equal to 14,001 pounds. Finally, Class 7-8 covers vehicles with a GVWR greater than or equal to 26,001 pounds.
SFGate says that the bulk of the RVs that would get caught up in this are primarily large Class A motorhomes and Super C motorhomes, the kinds of motorhomes rolling on specialized chassis. Technically, that 8,500-pound threshold would endanger far more RVs than just the biggest ones. Many Mercedes-Benz Sprinter camper vans have gross weight limits above 8,501 pounds. However, Mercedes-Benz should also sell enough EVs to offset selling vans, something the big RV chassis manufacturers currently cannot do.
There presently isn’t a single zero-emission Class A or Super C RV on the market, so if this regulation goes live in 2025, dealers will no longer be able to sell any brand-new Class A or Super C coaches. The market for zero-emission motorhomes is also remarkably tiny with startups like Grounded RV leading the way. As of publishing, no big brand sells a low-emission or zero-emission motorhome, though some are in development.
CARB does offer a path for builders wanting to sell large diesel-powered coaches, from SFGate:
CARB told SFGATE via email that “there is no motorhome ban.” A system of credits allows manufacturers that can’t meet the requirements to buy credits from those that do, giving them “the flexibility needed to sell as many internal combustion engines as is needed to meet market demands,” said spokesperson Lys Mendez. According to the board, manufacturers can also focus ZEV production on other vehicle types where that technology is more viable to meet the requirements.
The Advanced Clean Trucks rule sent shockwaves through the trucking world when it was first adopted, with lobbyists and truckers urging the states to reconsider. Now, the RV industry’s lobbying groups are trying to stop what they think will be an apocalypse.
The impact is already being felt. According to RV Travel, Spartan and Freightliner, two major diesel RV chassis builders, are deciding to pull out of the six states as they do not have a platform that would be legal. Newmar RV, which uses the aforementioned platforms, said on November 4 that it would no longer sell diesel RVs on those non-compliant platforms.
Thankfully, some class A RVs should be able to be sold in California and those other five states. For example, the Ford F53 Class A motorhome chassis (below) uses the 7.3-liter Godzilla gasoline V8 engine and reportedly, Ford has enough credits from selling electric cars and trucks that it can keep producing motorhome chassis for sale in the six states.
Things still get worse from there. You might think this wouldn’t be a big deal because you could just buy an RV from a state that doesn’t follow CARB rules and drive it back home. California says this will not be a workaround because if you buy a new RV that doesn’t comply with the rule, you won’t be able to register it in California.
During the CARB meeting about the rule, Joe Snyder, who represented Freightliner Custom Chassis, told the board:
Some of the vehicles we build are electric school buses, electric walk-in vans. We’re doing our best to meet the regulations. Currently we have no electric solution for Class A RVs and there are no credits, therefore no credits to build class a RV chassis, uh, with ICE engines. Additionally, there’s no infrastructure at camping locations where these future vehicles would be going to.
Please consider the following, the current law may incentivize older RVs to be purchased and thus going backwards on the emissions Act as it sits will stop nearly all sales of new Class A and super cvs. RVs are low mileage, low fuel, and thus low emission vehicles due to the low usage. Not allowing sales of new RVs doesn’t stop consumer demand.
Eliminating RVs from ACT will ensure clean diesel engines are operating in California. Keeping ACT as it is will ensure older vehicles are sold in state for the near future. Eliminating RVs from ACT will also allow enforcement officials to focus on larger fuel users. Additionally, CARB could add a limit of in-state miles and generator hours to prevent emissions of these vehicles.
I welcome the comments of the board on this topic. I’m thankful for the Clean Air programs. I’ve personally told thousands of people all over the US how clean our air is and that I can see the mountains every day and my kids don’t know what a smog day is. Help California RVs go out into our national parks all over the United States with clean diesel RVs, not older polluting RVs.
These rules can clean the air and demo jobs at the same time, or we can go out and be clean together.
Trevor Gasper, Senior Vice President and General Counsel of Thor Industries said:
I’m the Senior Vice President and general counsel of Thor Industries, the world’s largest producer of recreational vehicles. Thor owns a family of RV companies including Airstream, Tiffin, Jaco, Integra, and Thor Motor Coach, all of whom sell motor homes to dealers and consumers in the state of California so that they can better connect with nature in the outdoors as an industry.
We’ve spoken on several occasions about the concerns we have with the A CT and the amendments discussed today. Do not alleviate those concerns of the vehicles impacted by ACT. Motorhomes make up only one quarter of 1% of all miles driven on California, California roads. Unlike trucks at issue in the regulations, motor homes spend most of their functional life parked and not emitting GHGs.
Like all RV companies, we are a final stage manufacturer. We do not manufacture the chassis and engines that are utilized in our units because of this. We are currently beholden to the chassis produced for sale to us by our chassis OEMs.
We are being told by these major suppliers that due to the A CT and the unavailability of any electric or or zero emission or near zero emission, uh, product for the RV industry, that they simply will not sell us any products for resale into California or other states that have adopted the ACT beginning in 2025.
These chassis manufacturers are not interested in engaging in credit purchasing to our assist the RV industry. So even if we can buy credits, they don’t want to engage with us, they will not sell us chassis for sale in California. Period. I want carb to know that we are taking steps to develop zero emission and near zero emission solutions for the industry. Thor has a longstanding partnership with Harbinger Motors out of California to produce both near zero and zero emission options for the RV industry as we sit here today.
However, despite our best efforts over the last five years, these options are not available and will not be available in any meaningful number for at least 18… [mic cuts off].
In response to all of this, the RVIA SFGate: “While we are continuing to work with manufacturers, dealers, and CARB to find a solution, if nothing changes, motorhomes will not be able to be sold and registered in California beginning in 2025. The exact date is still to be determined.”
Lobbyists for the RV industry and dealers believe there is still time to change the rule. The goal is to get a waiver into the Advanced Clean Trucks rule for motorhomes, but if not, maybe convince lawmakers to kick the can down the road a little further. If the lobbyists are unsuccessful, at least buyers will still be able to get used motorhomes. There are also registration methods some RV owners may take that I will not discuss here.
If CARB does not grant an exemption to new motorhome sales, we could be seeing a very different future for the RV industry. Practically overnight, six large RV markets could dramatically change for a long time. Thor’s Mr. Gasper is correct, the vast majority of the RV industry isn’t ready to go zero-emission yet and won’t be for a while. We’ll be watching as this situation unfolds.
I am truly shocked to hear that on November 1, 2024 that RV manufacturers suddenly learned that they would no longer be able to sell RVs in 5 states because those states whimsically imposed EV mandates. It is crazy that no one saw this coming until now.
Until California and the rest of those states (I live in one) ban private jets, and boats over 30 feet that aren’t required for some sort of fishing industry, I don’t want to hear a damn thing.
Of course, they will continue restricting private citizens choices and lives, while letting the uber rich destroy everything and lecture us all the while.
Who do you think own these things?
Rather than sitting through that video (thanks for the warning) I found this regarding ACT:
What is ACT?To reduce emissions, ACT requires original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) of medium- and heavy-duty vehicles to sell zero-emissions vehicles (ZEVs) or near-zero-emissions vehicles (NZEVs) such as plug-in electric hybrids as an increasing percentage of their annual sales from 2024 to 2035. The regulation uses a cap-and-trade system, capping the number of fossil fuel vehicles sold by stipulating annual sales percentage requirements. The rule allows manufacturers to comply with the regulation by generating compliance credits through the sale of ZEVs or NZEVs or through the trading of compliance credits. ACT defines ZEVs and NZEVs as follows:
Zero-emission vehicle: A vehicle that produces zero tail-pipe emissions, including battery-electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.Near-zero-emissions vehicle: A vehicle with an internal combustion engine and an electric energy storage system, including plug-in hybrid vehicles and hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles.https://rmi.org/understanding-californias-advanced-clean-truck-regulation/
I understand that RV makers don’t think pure BERVs are possible but since there is already a carve out for near-zero-emissions vehicles what about ERRVs, PHRVs and HFCRVs? As we’ve (OK maybe just me) has pointed out before since RVs need a generator anyway, why not double duty it as a range extender and heater?
I saw a picture of a van that said “Mercedes Streeter” right below and did a double take.
Thankfully the picture was of a Ford or I would have thought it was the latest Mercedes van model.
Haven’t had enough coffee today…
We must ask ourselves why do any car people support the party of cars must be banned? Second since according to all experts California will be underwater by August 2025 why are we worried about what laws they pass? Third when the Governor in the interest of lowering gas prices for the workers allows his hand picked henchmen to increase gas prices by 85 cents a gallon and in addition passing laws required to set up a reserve of gas that will cause even more shortages that will increase costs about another $1.50 a gallon you got to say WTF.
I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER BUT THIS AIN’T IT.
No experts say California will be underwater by 2025. A lot Florida, portions of Texas, Newport News Naval base perhaps. A couple more beachfront home in California will erode into the water.
Rancho Palos Verdes is my favorite monthly youtube binge.
The fewer of these abominations on the road the safer for the rest of us. Old people can always flush away their life savings with better financial investments like casinos, time share condos and subscriptions to brain improvement vitamins.
That said, the mobile meth lab is going to get more expensive in the future.
Hey I owned my own business that requires delivery vehicles. It needed a 20 foot box truck and 12,000 pound cargo capacity. I used a Ford E350SD. There is no EV vehicle in even experiment stage to handle this.
Show me an E-350 “SD” that has a 12,000 pound cargo capacity. I think you are talking about a gross vehicle weight rating. There are electric Transit and Sprinter vans that exceed the cargo capacity that I think you are talking about. Again, maybe there is an “E350SD” that can carry 12,000 pounds and I am ignornant.
Apologies if I missed it in there, but every 3/4 and 1 ton consumer truck is over 8500 GVWR and a lot of people rely on them for work, besides those who just like driving them. And there aren’t any electrified HD trucks either.
Unless the percentages in the table are for a manufacturer’s entire line of vehicles and not just their 8500+ trucks? Can Ford sell 100% gas/diesel F350s because it sells Mach Es?
This would seem to me to be a bigger deal than toys like Class A RVs.
My parents purchased a rental property in Delaware to get residency there.
At the end of the 20 years driving around the country in their 40′ motorcoach they sold the Delaware house for a tidy profit – having using other people’s money to pay the mortgage.
That said – I doubt many San Franciscans, Angelinos, San Diegans or Bostonians will be much affected – as big RVs rolling across the Midwest aren’t something most strive for.
Yes but any middle income people in California need an RV or move to another state
Montana LLC. Get your vacation bus registered and skip sales tax. Win win. Maybe refurbishing old motorhomes will be a big business so we can keep older RVs with less stringent emissions control on the street belching diesel fumes rather than replacing them with updated emission regulated rigs. Global warming is a hoax, but I really value clean air. Government stupid, business smart.
> Global warming is a hoax
It really isn’t.
Yes it is. Temperatures were far higher than now during the dinosaur ???? age. And there were no people. In the 1970s they warned of the next ice age, did I miss it before are current global warming scare? Frankly ignore the weatherman that can’t predict tomorrow’s weather and embrace science that says for the last million years the earth has gone from molten surfaces to an entire iceball before us puny humans surfaced. We can’t control it and screwing ourselves is not a solution. Sure work towards better air but we are here for a brief period. Party while we can
Correct. 13,000 years ago, a mere blip in the Earth’s existence, Chicago was under 1 mile of ice. How did the ice melt? Native American campfires?
Moses and his Jewish Space Lasers melted that ice cap…
Read your Talmud you smuck…/s
sorry that joke seems to live forever to me.
we are here for a brief period.
So is that oil. Regardless of what happens to the climate fossil fuels are a finite resource anyway. And most of that oil is in OPEC countries:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranking-the-countries-with-the-largest-proven-global-oil-reserves-in-the-world/
One benefit of moving to electricity, especially renewable electricity – less dependence on OPEC.
Something to keep in mind: When other people use less oil that leaves more oil AND cleaner air for you too.
Lmao good. These poverty traps are such a drain on society.
What a joke, least people can vote.
Name me one of these eco-nazis that was voted in by the public. Nope, CARB is headed by appointed nominees.
I know there is a lot of pearl clutching about this but seriously what would be the fallout? Some people in a few states have to buy a smaller or used RV, rent one, or use AirBnB. Or move. And some RV companies will book lower profits. Maybe some people in Indiana get laid off. Of course this is only for a couple of years until alternatives arrive or the law is changed.
I know, I know, Freedom and all that which is important. However, they elected their representatives and collectively decided this was a good idea. Maybe they will elect better people. Maybe they will discover that no one really needs to travel in their own private bus. Let the system work it out.
The main fallout would be lower sales for the overall industry, which, eh, they’ll survive. Though, small dealers will definitely want to change up their inventory.
Actually global warming flooding California is a benefit if we can keep the Californians in California when it happens. I don’t want them to perish but they are so friggin stupid we can’t let them infect smart people.
It is dumb as hell you don’t need a special license for one of these monsters. My grandma bought one for 200k new back when she was 85. She thought she was going to drive the country with her friend. She was so scared of driving it that it never went anywhere and she wasted all that money. We all sighed with relief.
That’s the story of many of them. Older people buy them to see the country, use them a few times, but discover that they’re terrifying to drive, then park them in the side yard to rot for the next few decades until sold to some YouTuber for a “will it start” video and one final ride to a NASCAR race
Sold by an RV dealer that was happy to use the 30-year mortgage clause to finance it for her. They are now crying because they thought they could bluff California into rescinding the EV mandate. I am shedding so many tears for those poor RV dealers at the moment……
And Massachusetts too.
Aw darn! We just did Washington dirty there. Fixed, thank you! 🙂
From Massachusetts, yes we are important enough to count double…
Ye all scoffed at hydrogen powered vehicles and now ye shall reap the whirlwind. Just not a Four Winds.
I know these things aren’t related in any way, shape, or form, but I’d feel a lot worse if RV manufacturers had done anything more than sell cheap-shit luan and particle board trash-bins-on-wheels.
The common thread, I guess if you had to find one, is the complete lack of goodwill they’ve earned. I’m not exactly pouring one out for those poor RV manufacturers that have been ripping people off with dogshit dog houses.
Amen
“there is no motorhome ban.” we’ll just make it impossible to buy one.
Buy one acre of land in Montana, register rv to that address. Rv is the house in Montana. Californians have been doing that forever.
Even easier: Register it in South Dakota. 😉
Bingo. Register elsewhere, problem solved. Well, it is ruining CARB’s plan to reduce emissions, but CARB enforcement is a joke.
Pretty sure everybody at CARB is going to be looking for a new job by February 2025
State =/ Federal
Carb is only allowed to exist because the federal government gives the state a waiver. Anything that crosses state lines is federal jurisdiction, so the state has actually no power to regulate any of this without federal permission.
Plus the original EPA regulations that CARB has a waiver from were never passed by Congress, so they’re illegal. The CARB death watch began last week.
Man I hope so, but I think we’re going to need legislation to remove the waiver process or they’ll be back like a zombie at some point
I doubt that any legislation relating to CARB could be passed under budget reconciliation so it does not need 60 votes in the senate. I think it is much more likely that the supreme court confirms that states are not allowed to ban any product legally produced in another state.
“electric school buses, electric walk-in vans”
These are actually needed, whereas giant RVs for rich people… aren’t.
Sadly most traditional school busses I see are pretty awful. They’re super high up so much so you need stairs to get in them.
Busses with low floors and air suspension make a lot more sense as school buses, and for kids in wheelchairs you don’t need a heavy, bulky, and complex lift, you just have a fold out or slide out ramp that extends and retracts with one button.
Those should be what electric school busses are, instead most school busses are of the archaic design we’ve been using for longer than I’ve been alive, including the overwhelming majority of electric school bus designs I see.
Yeah, low-floor buses would be good, but I think schools typically don’t get the fancy stuff you see in public transit buses, like extendable ramps, kneeling, or low floors.
Kids in wheelchairs mostly get the small vans with lifts, don’t they?
I suppose for a school you know who needs accommodation and exactly where they are, so it’s more economical to get some special vans. Public transit you never know who’s going to be riding, and never know where they’ll get off and get on, so it’s more important to have the accommodations built in to the baseline vehicle.