The news of a potential Honda-Nissan merger, aka Nissonda, isn’t news to anyone who reads The Morning Dump. I’ve been calling for Nissan and Honda to merge since August. The rest of the world woke up to the possibility yesterday and I held off on writing about it because what was missing from those reports was a good explanation of why right now.
This morning we got a little insight into the other company that was looking to buy the Nissan and why that might scare the crap out of Honda. You know what scares the crap out of me? The lack of air traffic controllers. Perhaps I’ve just watched too much Breaking Bad.
Every year it was a requirement to go to the Detroit Auto Show if you wanted to know what was happening in the automotive world. Lately, that hasn’t been the case, but Detroit is making a real attempt to shift toward a more consumer-centric show. And, finally, a car movie made by some friends is now available on Amazon to watch.
No One Wants The Foxconn Guarding The Nissonda House
It’s been clear that Nissan has been in trouble for a while, never quite finding its footing after having its CEO Carlos Ghosn arrested and separating from Renault. Nissan has struggled in China, like most non-Chinese/non-Tesla automakers. The company’s products haven’t been particularly competitive in the United States, either. Like Stellantis, there’s a lot of value there, but it’s not clear how that value could be tapped.
The suspicion was that Nissan had roughly until the end of 2025 to get its act together, which involved the increasing likelihood of a Honda-Nissan merger. Japan has, effectively, three automaker groups: Toyota and its affiliates (Suzuki, Mazda, Subaru), Honda, and Nissan-Mitsubishi. If you combined Nissan, Honda, and Mitsubishi you still wouldn’t have an automaker as big as Toyota on its own by market cap, but you’d have something a little more competitive by size at least.
In this “Darwinian period” of the automotive world, as Carlos Tavares called it, maybe Honda is big enough to survive on its own, but it would be a lot easier if it could add some scale from a tie-up with Nissan-Mitsubishi. More importantly, the three companies could work together to try and battle a growing threat from Chinese automakers in China and, increasingly, everywhere else.
Elon Musk has said that the future is just going to be Tesla and a handful of Chinese automakers. Would he include Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. (aka Foxconn) on that list? The Taiwanese mega global manufacturer makes about 40% of the world’s smartphones and now wants to build about 40% of the world’s electric cars.
The company hired Nissan exec Jun Seki to oversee its EV plans, and Seki told Bloomberg about the timeline:
“We never give up, 5% is the first step we have to achieve,” said Seki, and the ultimate aim is to garner a share as large as Hon Hai has in smartphone manufacturing, as much as 40% or more.
To date, Hon Hai has only won corporate customers for its EV manufacturing at home in Taiwan. It ventured into the EV assembly business in 2020 as then-new Chairman Young Liu, who took over from founder Terry Gou, was looking for new cash cows.
How Foxconn planned to do this has felt a little opaque to me. It purchased the former GM Lordstown Assembly and was going to build Fiskers, and maybe Scouts, but those plans obviously haven’t worked out that way. Seki said that Lordstown will take about five years to ramp up EV production, though for whom I’m not sure.
Perhaps for Seki’s old company Nissan? Asia’s Nikkei news service kicked off a new round of chatter about Nissonda happening, with little explanation for the urgency. This morning came a clear explanation from the news site:
As of September, 22.8% of Nissan shares were held by trust banks, and Foxconn appears to have been interested in these shares in order to have an influence in Nissan’s business.
When Nissan became aware of Foxconn’s moves, the struggling automaker held behind-the-scenes talks to hammer out ways to defend itself.
Uh oh! Nissan didn’t really want to be owned by Renault and the company’s leadership would probably be happier not merging with Honda. It clearly sees Foxconn as the worst of all worlds as Foxconn is looking to make money and would likely dramatically cut back what the company does.
According to this report, Honda wouldn’t go through with a Nissan partnership if Foxconn ended up taking over the company. This makes sense. Honda is trying to merge with Nissan in part to protect itself from new competitors that can make cheap cars on a massive scale. If Honda handed more of its technical know-how to Nissan it would effectively be passing that information to Foxconn.
Again, from the Nikkei article.
In December, Foxconn accelerated its under-the-radar activities, and Nissan received information that Foxconn’s Seki was planning to meet with Renault CEO Luca de Meo in Paris.
“It would not be surprising if Foxconn approached [Renault] about acquiring Nissan shares at that meeting,” a Nissan official said.
Now the timing makes sense. Would Nissan and Honda really work? That’s a fair question and columnist Antony Currie points out that a merger isn’t always a slam dunk:
A well-executed merger could buy Nissan and Honda time not just to slash expenses but to bolster their subpar portfolio, not least of electric and hybrid cars. Stellantis shows that if executives don’t focus on producing vehicles customers want to buy at prices that keep shareholders happy, any union is likely to careen off the road again.
This is true, though Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Honda don’t have quite as much overlap as you’d think, and Stellantis was way too many brands being combined at once. I’m hopeful that a mixture of cost-cutting, streamlining, and a renewed product focus for Nissan could work out for everyone.
Jet Blue CEO: Air Traffic Control Is ‘Grossly Understaffed’
Here’s a little secret: I switched from being a mostly Delta customer to a mostly JetBlue customer. I think Delta service is, in general, better, but it was too hard to maintain status at my diminished level of flying. No one wants to be the 900th person in line for an upgrade and Delta is clogged with business travelers now.
JetBlue is more focused on travel/leisure flyers who don’t fly as often, which means that status is easier to attain and use. I just leveled up to Mosaic status for next year and I didn’t even fly that much this year.
So, when JetBlue’s CEO Joanna Geraghty talks, I’m going to listen, because that’s how I plan to get around most of next year. And right now she’s complaining about ATC.
“I wish this administration would focus more on air traffic control,” Chief Executive Officer Joanna Geraghty said in a Bloomberg Television interview Tuesday. “That has definitely been a meaningful pressure for JetBlue and other airlines.”
The nation is “grossly understaffed” in air traffic controllers, she said, and “we should be able to have a more resilient air traffic system.” JetBlue and other carriers with large operations in the New York area have been particularly hard hit by the shortages.
Yikes! Let’s get this fixed.
The Detroit Auto Show Is Back In January Where It Belongs
I have a great affection for the Detroit Auto Show and miss having a reason to go every year. It was fun to bop around seeing everyone, getting drinks at the Firehouse, and watching Kim Cattrall get paid to flirt with Dr. Z.
Now that the Detroit Auto Show is back in January, the hope is it’ll reclaim a little bit of its past glory. From this Automotive News article it sounds like it’ll be mostly local dealerships providing inventory, though Ineos, Rivian, and the Detroit 3 will be there:
“There’s absolutely been a shift if you compare where we were 15-20 years ago, and then, obviously after COVID,” Klemet told Automotive News affiliate Crain’s Detroit Business on Dec. 17. “But actually, I’m pretty encouraged by this, and here’s why: We are a consumer-focused show. We want to make sure that the people that come down to the show, more than ever, are the people that are looking to buy cars, that are interested in buying cars, that love cars in general, and so to create an experience for them that taps into those passions is critically important for us.” Corporate-sponsored brands for the upcoming show include Alfa Romeo, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Jeep, Kia, Lincoln, Ram, Toyota and Volkswagen.
I hope it’s a huge success and everyone goes back to Detroit next year in January.
Go Watch ‘Edith’ On Amazon Prime
I’ve had a job as both a secret-teller and a secret-keeper, and between the two I think I’d rather be a secret-teller. That made my last job at TV/film/video production company TangentVector tough sometimes. The company works for a lot of automakers and often ends up seeing things way before even the PR folks do.
Towards the end of my time there, before I came over to The Autopian, I was told about a project so clandestine that I’d be murdered in my sleep if I even hinted about its existence. Few people even at Porsche knew that the company was building a 911 that could conquer a volcano somewhere in South America.
The more details I heard about the project, the more insane it sounded to me, and I was glad that I wasn’t going on this particular shoot. When I left, the project had been unsuccessful and that’s most of what I knew. Eventually, Porsche made it work, and Tangent produced a documentary about the climb. I saw it earlier this year at Pebble Beach in a theater and it made me feel viscerally uncomfortable. In a good way! This was scary.
You can now see the film on Amazon Prime and if you have Prime it’s worth watching. If you don’t have Prime, just get Prime to watch it.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
My favorite political story this week was the one about the New Jersey congressman busted for making his Spotify wrapped playlist look like all his top songs were by Bruce Springsteen. That’s so New Jersey. I guess he’s on the “naughty” list this year, but perhaps he can get on the “good” list by listening to Bruce and the E Street Band performing “Santa Claus Is Comin’ To Town” in Houston.
The Big Question
What should the new Nissan-Honda and maybe Mitsubishi company be called? I’m enjoying Nissonda, a name suggested by Thomas. [Editor’s Note: What about more old-school, like Hondatsun? That has BOTH full names, thanks to the common letters! – JT]
Photo: Nissan/Honda/_____, This post contains an Amazon affiliate link and we could make a comission.
#TeamHonDatsun
Acua-HonDatsun-Nismo!
I’m glad the auto show is back to January again. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people who go to the auto show do so because there’s not much else going on in SE Michigan in the middle of January. When they moved it to late summer, it was much harder to justify going to it when it’s nice out and there’s so many other things going on especially with the show not exactly being the spectacle it used to be.
I skipped the years they had it during the summer because there were just other things I’d rather do instead. Even the one year where the admission ticket was included with my Radwood ticket, I still didn’t care enough to walk the maybe 100 yards over to the convention center to go check it out. But this year, I’ll be there because I’m not going to have anything else going on then.
Moistshinidansubshina
Better yet, just call the new company Anagram Motors.
Poor Honda…
Ew. What potentially awful news this is.
I think most of us here agree that this is more than likely being pushed on Honda to help save Japan’s domestic auto industry. And I get that this could potentially be worthwhile for Honda, who would acquire access to BOF truck platforms and some EV experience. But, God, do you want to take on all that Nissan stink?
The name of the new company should be Honda. Yeah I get that the Nissan name has some equity outside of the US, but it’s damn near shot here, and given some more time, would likely be shot elsewhere too. I understand Honda is behind in some other markets and needs to grow to survive, but do they really want to be associated with Nissan in the market that butters their bread? Seriously, Nissan has to be the most lampooned brand in the US now, even among non-enthusiasts.
Naw, Nissan should keep it’s identity, but in the US, it should switch back to being Datsun. The Nissan name has lost most (all?) of it’s shine, but a lot of people still have a fondness for Datsun.
I’m going to have to disagree. As much as I love the Datsun brand and the cars of that era, if I were to walk around my office, I would probably find 2 or 3 people who even know what Datsun is. Any non-enthusiast under the age of 40 is going to wonder what Datsun is, Google it, discover it’s an attempt at a Nissan rebrand, and curse at the memory of the Rogue with the exploded CVT they took a bath on 8 years ago.
I think your assumption that people actually research what a company is, is a bold one. I think most would see a shiny thing and go ooooooo that one.
As long as we keep getting high-revving VTEC motors coupled to slick-shifting manuals I don’t care what they call it. Oh…wait……dammit.
ATC staffing has been an issue for many years. New controllers are being trained at a much slower rate than retirements. Most controllers are working mandatory six day weeks with additional overtime.
To make things worse, the FAA just recently moved control of the airspace around Newark from NY TRACON (located on Long Island) to Philadelphia TRACON. including mandatory reassignments for those who didn’t want to move. So now in addition to all the normal mandatory overtime, you have controllers having to live away from their family.
Some of the ‘drone’ sightings are theorized to be planes in holding patterns where they don’t normally hold due to the issues at Philly dealing with the adjustment of dealing with all the Newark traffic.
If Nissan really wanted to stay relevant, they’d make more potent mills, RWD their whole portfolio and ditch the CVT’s… but alas, here we are. They did this to themselves.
So basically go back to the plan of being Japan’s BMW that brought Infiniti such modest success in the 2000s? What an idea.
They reaaaaaally should have revisited that idea about a decade ago. When they (Infiniti more than Nissan) debuted the Q50 (and the dumb and confusing Q-everything naming scheme) it was clear they had lost their way. When even the “luxury” line is cutting that many corners especially for the UX, there’s a severe problem, and it was clear Nissan wasn’t going to take any of the relative good that Infiniti had cultivated and bring it back to the main brand.
I don’t give a single rats ass about Nissan If the company disappeared the only loss would be for the people employed by it. Their generic cars are surpassed by Toyota and Honda on things that matter.
I feel that Honda would be dragged down by a merger. If Honda bought Nissan then axed all of Nissan to make it more Honda – that would be fine.
But what if they made a Juke DeltaWing?
We all know that Honda is doing this just to acquire those sweet sweet Jatco CVTs.
Hmmmm. Any chance you have another account here?
Doesn’t everyone on here have at least 2? You gotta have one for posting ridiculous stuff. Like unwavering defense of a CVT or perhaps a critical comment about Miatas.
I always hoped that the crazy Ford Tempo guy from the old site was some sort of comedic burner account.
As far as I can tell, Conor (FTF) is completely genuine. He apparently owns three Tempos today: his first car, another factory AWD model (that one with working AWD), and a newer V6 LX.
Amazing commitment to the worst car I can think of at this moment. But hey, I’m not stopping anyone.
I feel like finding some charm and appeal in vehicles that are frankly shit, but not quite amusing shit, is very Autopian. There’s an ass for every seat, and all that.
I agree, though – if I was in a situation where I was staring down having to own a Tempo, I’d wish it was a Taurus MT-5, or a Grand Am, or at least a Topaz so I could stick some LEDs (or bulbs, back in the day) in the unlit “lightbar” and pretend it was a Sable from the front in the dark.
Oooh that’s a good idea, actually. But I don’t remember the login process being especially easy, so I wouldn’t even want to begin to try.
Ha, no. I despise those horrible boxes of frustration and sadness, and not just Jatco’s. Honda’s, Hyundai/Kia’s, Subaru’s, etc.
The other user you imply seems to genuinely like them, and/or is seriously committed to the façade.
I’ve never been to the Detroit show, but I did get plenty of chuckles watching everyone complain about mountains of dirty slush and wheel-eating potholes from the one time of the year when going outside in my sun-baked hellscape is sometimes tolerable.
Anyway, now I’ve got this song stuck in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-jZHMX-CJ0
Maybe Honsanbishi should go the Stellantis route and pick something absurd. Maybe it should take a page from the Pajero’s rude-in-certain-markets name.
Pendejo Motor Company.
There we go. A name which evokes the sheer force of nature embodied by Nissan’s iconic best-selling North American-market vehicle, the Altima.
I had the pleasure to go a few times during the industry days. The work part (benchmarking) wasn’t particularly fun, but it was better than sitting in the office. Already being in southeast michigan, the weather didn’t really matter (but as you said dealing with the slush was annoying), but having to travel into the area from somewhere with better weather (much of the US at that time of year) would have sucked.
As a fellow Texan I can confirm that Pendejo Motors would sell like hotcakes in this region.
Honda would gain manufacturing capacity and all the knowledge Nissan has on EV’s.
I could see them making Nissan an EV-focused brand. The Ariya is a slam dunk; the Leaf is long in the tooth but dirt cheap. If they don’t refresh the brand like that, I don’t see why they’d bother to keep using it; they might just slap H logos on the front and keep funding that side of the company.
(You can make an argument about Nissan’s enthusiast roster as well. They might spin that off to a Nissan sub-brand, like a revived Datsun or using Nismo as a brand name, and keep Nissan proper as EV-focused.)
This is the idea that makes the most sense that I’ve seen so far. The Ariya should serve the market well enough as is. Reincarnating the Maxima as an EV sports sedan is almost natural since they spent the last few generations as CVT’s anyway, from a driving experience perspective. Nissan keeps the Frontier and Titan under their umbrella. Maybe shuffle off the Prologue as the new EV Pathfinder once Honda gets its own electric platform ready to go?
Infiniti gets the axe, they’ve already got Acura and that’s a stronger brand. Maybe re-brand the QX-80 as an Acura to allow them to compete in the full size luxury SUV space.
The question becomes whether Honda could, should, or would want to be an ICE/Hybrid only brand while Nissan goes electric. It might send the wrong messages, marketing wise.
The Nissan models that sold 100k units or more in 2023 were the Sentra, the Altima, and the Rouge. (they only sold 1700 Z cars…) If you consider ‘platforms’ then the Altima would drag the Pathfinder with it (the Rouge and Sentra share a platform). The Versa and Kicks summed together just squeak over my arbitrary 100k line. Titan and Armada together only hit 40k, and the Frontier sold 58k, but Honda doesn’t have any traditional trucks (though they do have the Ridgeline), so they would be a complement to the overall merged company’s product portfolio.
The overall Honda portfolio would gain the trucks, the Versa/Note in the ‘smaller than a Civic’ market space, wheras you could rebadge an Odyssey as a Nissan minivan if you cared to.
The question is what do you do with Altima/Sentra and their good sales when you already have the Civic/Accord in that market space?
This.
Their relationships are really not comparable to what you seem to be proposing for Honda and Nissan. All four of those are still separate companies that have collaborated to one degree or another. That would be like saying GM and Ford are comparable to the Stellantis monstrosity because they co-developed the 10 speed transmission. Working together != merging.
I don’t know what it says about me that I have liked every Altima I’ve ever been in. We’ve gotten them as rentals a few times over the years and I’ve always found them to be comfortable, spacious, efficient cars. My one real concern with them would be the reliability of the CVT (with apologies to our resident transmission commenter 😉 ).
Re: ATCs: I fully expect DOGE to fire all of them because the director of Air Traffic Control didn’t genuflect when Musk walked in the room, then realize it was a criminally stupid thing to do and quietly hire back as many as possible. And the fact that everyone reading this right now is doing the Captain America “I got that reference” thing tells you all you need to know about the probability of this administration fixing any shortages of critical government resources.
One need only observe a few Altimas on the interstate to understand that well-executed merges just aren’t a thing for Nissan.
Absolute perfection, no notes
I enjoy being on a site where we can make big Altima energy jokes and not have someone lecturing us about how we are demonizing the poor. Yeah, that happened on the old site.
If there’s anything that can bring mankind (not the WWF wrestler) together at this point, it’s making Big Altima Energy jokes.
Well they have to carry the stuff they, uh, liberated from the cargo trains back to their residences somehow. They’re just ekeing our their existence the only way society allows them to.
Yeah those were some of the record-scratch moments where you could tell the site was malignantly rotting from within.
Wait till you see the Altima Type-R do it
COTD
Well I don’t get the Honda/Nissan thing except for Japanese unity.
Nissan leads in zero segments, and their brand equity is long gone. They’re best known as a meme at this point, the choice of a reckless driver in a clapped out used sedan.
I guess the Frontier could slot into a Honda lineup with the Ridgeline. Maybe get a more efficient drivetrain in there. The big Armada I guess, although Honda having a gas guzzling V8 powered lumbering SUV in the lineup isn’t very Honda.
Otherwise, Nissan manufacturing doesn’t offer better quality. Their U.S. dealer network is just as scummy or worse than Honda.
Even worse, they’d also likely get stuck with Infiniti. What the hell do you do with that? It is like a zombie brand, probably cost millions to close down.
If any Japanese brand could just use “factory capacity”, you’d think it’d be Toyota who seemingly can’t make certain models fast enough to satisfy demand.
I could see a scenario where it adds enough stability at Nissan for them to keep plugging along, and the two companies get to leverage their combined engineering resources to catch up a bit in terms of offerings by working on new platforms and tech together for a slow (very methodical/Japanese) rollout. I agree Nissan isn’t bringing much to the table with current product, but gaining resources could be a good thing for Honda (and, as someone mentioned somewhere else, some of that might be US manufacturing resources in southern states with cheaper labor than Honda uses). Mitsubishi of course brings medium and heavy truck expertise when it comes to the US market, and they also have more of an offering elsewhere in the world for passenger cars.
Of course, what would actually happen is they’d get some guy named Carlos to be the new global leader and all the companies would end up in the trash.
That’s a good point about their premium brands. Acura isn’t exactly lighting up the sales charts, either. Do they need an entire squadron of albatrosses?
I think Infiniti has more cachet than Acura, FWIW, but I also keep forgetting both brands exist.
Could they go toe-to-toe with Lexus? Maybe, but they need to come back into relevance first. As far as I can tell Genesis is doing a better job of attracting “luxury” buyers than acura, buick, and infiniti combined.
Hondubishi. Sounds like the name of a Teppanyaki restaurant.
Maybe that could be the marketing angle.
Honda-san. Very Japanese.
Came here to say that
This has to be for dealer network and manufacturing capacity, right? Otherwise I don’t see the benefit for Honda besides eliminating a competitor by devouring them. If that is the plan though it has an if we build it they (customers) will come vibe without any assurances that they will sell enough additional cars to make the cost worthwhile.
Hondatsun . . . make is so.
Well, since this is all due to Nissan doing such a shit job of managing themselves after pulling away from Renault and now they need to be bailed out, I think there is only one proper answer to this question. The new name should be:
Honda
TBF, adopting Nissan’s name in any format would lose a lot of what Honda’s built up over the years.
And, no matter who takes over Nissan still has to deal with the remnants of Infiniti.
Very happy to hear the auto show is back. Every year when I was in college, I would make the trip from Vermont to go to the show. So many good memories.
I just hope we get a new NSX GT-R Type R Nismo.
VVT-VTEC just kicked in, yo
If we instead got a variable compression ratio / CVT NSX, we will have confirmation we live in the evil mirror universe.
Bobu. The Japanese iteration of Bob. That’s the perfect name.
Probably not widely remembered, but Nissan once advertised the Nissan Sentra for guys named Bob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAFAjUnwCwg
That’s exactly where I got the idea. Glad you caught it.
Nissan is more WOW than BOB
Quiboxilin. The generic Stellantis equivalent. Works just as well at shedding profits.
Just feels like a dead weight for Honda to have to cart around at a critical time when flexibility and quick change is needed but maybe I’ll be proven wrong.
I see no benefit to Honda acquiring Nissan. There’s little to no IP or manufacturing tech that they need from them. “Scale” is a catch-all for “we don’t know exactly why.” What’s the point of the scale if it’s all inferior to your own?
Right! Know what’s better than “scale?” A dead competitor’s market share with no brand dilution.
I’m not anti-Nissan, and it’d be super great for a lot of people if they found a happy, healthy path forward. But their products have been coasting in the shadows of greater ghosts for a long time.
It seems like you could describe most of Nissan’s lineup as “A Honda ____, but worse.” The only current Nissan I would miss is the Z and that’s only because dedicated sports cars aren’t very common these days.