The new Scout Traveler blew me away when it debuted for the first time yesterday in Nashville. It’s a solid rear axle-equipped electric SUV that solves range anxiety concerns using a gasoline range extender instead of 1,000 extra pounds of pricey, dirty-to-source batteries. It’s the perfect setup for 2024, especially for a vehicle designed to tow. Yesterday, I put down a preorder, and though I do think I will actually end up buying the Traveler (if not initially, eventually), it will never replace my BMW i3, because my little BMW has something the Scout doesn’t.
As a journalist, I have a loud megaphone to declare my opinions, but usually — and this is the case for most journalists — it feels like the industry isn’t listening. Yesterday, though, I felt heard; it felt like Scout built a car just for me based on the articles I’ve been writing over the past decade. Obviously, this isn’t true, but still: The company built pretty much exactly the car I’ve been asking for for years. And, knowing how lucky I am for that to happen in my lifetime, I’m putting my money where my mouth is. I’m buying the new Scout Traveler.
Of course, execution is as important as ideation, so I’m going to have to test drive the machine. I also think preordering cars is a bit of a silly concept, but I’ve been asking for this vehicle for years, and I’m happy to provide a $100 interest-free loan to help Scout make it happen. Just to demonstrate how perfectly the Scout Traveler is allowing me to finally put my money where my mouth is, let’s go through some of its attributes that I’ve been asking for forever.
Range Extender
I want to keep this section short since I’ve been obsessing over range-extended BMW i3s for far too long now (I own two of them at the moment).
I implore you to read my article “America’s Plug-In Hybrids Aren’t Good Enough,” because it includes lines like this:
I believe that the fastest way to get as many people driving electric as often as possible (ostensibly the U.S’s goal, since it should theoretically have positive climate change implications) is to offer range-extended electric cars — in other words, PHEVs that are electric cars first, gasoline cars second. And I think not offering these cars has jeopardized perhaps one of the biggest opportunities the auto industry has at having a positive climate impact.
I fleshed that point out in a later story titled “America Focusing On Electric Cars And Not Plug-In Hybrids Was A Huge Mistake.” Here’s me calling out GM for its foolish decision to skip hybrids for BEVs:
I’ll repeat a quote from GM president Mark Reuss — one quite similar to the one from Mary Barra in my lede paragraph. This one’s from The Wall Street Journal:
If I had a dollar more to invest, would I spend it on a hybrid?…Or would I spend it on the answer that we all know is going to happen, and get there faster and better than anybody else?”
Let’s put this quote into different terms. Reuss is implying that it makes more sense to spend limited battery resources to get one V8 Chevy Silverado driver to trade in for a ridiculous 200 kWh (!) Silverado EV than it does to take that hideously large battery, split it into four, and get four Silverado V8 drivers to stop cruising around getting 13 MPG and spewing CO2 into the atmosphere. It’s nonsense, but this is exactly what GM chose: fewer, pricier EVs instead of more, cheaper, more palatable (especially to EV skeptics not ready to go full-BEV), lighter PHEVs that could potentially each be better for the environment than their EV counterpart (and certainly, when you factor in the number of people now able to drive around predominantly electricity instead of gas, overall it’s much, much better for the environment, as Toyota concludes with its 1:6:90 rule).
How’s that working out for GM?
This isn’t a “hindsight is 20:20 situation.” This was obvious. The idea that you’d get everyone to go straight from ICEs to BEVs is preposterous, but when shareholders want a company that seems like it’s on the cutting edge, promising to go all-BEV by 2025 (or whenever) was the sexy thing for many companies to do instead of actually listening to the customer.
Then when Motor Trend published a truly absurd story decrying PHEVs, I responded with “MotorTrend’s Ridiculous Arguments Against Plug-In Hybrids: Just Say Hell No.” Here’s me taking on the silly “but not 100% of PHEV owners plug in all the time” non-argument:
So the data is murky, but that doesn’t matter because not every owner has to plug in all the time for PHEVs to make sense. If only a third of truck drivers plug in daily and drive 95 percent of their miles in EV mode instead of spewing emissions from a 21 MPG (or lower) truck, that’s going to be a significant win for the environment. And to be honest, I bet the figure would be above a third for pickup trucks, since driving them on gas leads to such a significant added cost for the driver.
What’s more, it’s not a given that all PHEVs have to be less efficient than equivalent gas cars when they’re not charged. A range-extended EV running on its gas engine could, in theory, be more efficient than an equivalent ICE vehicle since the engine is able to run at a steady RPM to act as a generator.
And that leads me to a significant issue with these anti-PHEV assertions: They assume that all PHEVs must be like the ones currently available. Just because modern PHEVs aren’t good enough (as I wrote in a previous story) doesn’t mean future PHEVs can’t be different.
Anyway, I’m a true believer in range-extended EVs as a means to get as many people driving electric as quickly as possible. Climate change is a cumulative emissions issue, so waiting five years for folks to drive a fully-electric car is worse than getting them to drive a range-extended EV that they drive in electric mode the vast majority of the time today. And in fact, the range-extended EV could be more environmentally friendly, even long-term, than the fully-electric car if the owner doesn’t use the gas range extender that often.
Even Peter Rawlinson, CEO of Lucid, agrees that range-extenders make some amount of sense, especially in pickup truck applications.
Perhaps more importantly, as someone who drives a range-extended EV daily, I just find them fun. They’re lightweight and electric — a great duo.
Bench Seat
In 2020 I wrote the story “Why Now Is The Perfect Time To Bring Back The Bench Seat.” From that piece:
If you’re a product planner in the auto industry, you’re looking to not only equip your future vehicle with the tech and safety features that folks shopping in your segment are looking for, but you’re also keen to make your car stand out. You’re seeking a feature that you can market as a fun, whiz-bang option—something that your dealers can mention to get buyers excited.
That something could be a bench seat. Just look at the Land Rover Defender that launched last year. That split-bench seat was a hit, with automotive media outlets writing stories solely about how magnificent that flat plane of butt-cushioning is.
[…]
On many EVs, the floor is completely flat (or nearly—sometimes the cable from the underhood electronics to the battery pack creates a little bump), meaning a bench seat would have some real utility. One could sit there for a long trip, comfortably. So there’s really no reason why many modern EVs shouldn’t sit three across in the front row.
Tailgate
Another attribute that I have lauded for years is the tailgate — a great place to hang out, cook, change your baby’s diaper, or whatever. Tailgates rule, and I’ve been preaching this gospel for years. We recently published an article about the new Ford Expedition SUV titled “The 2025 Ford Expedition Gets A Cool Split-Tailgate And A Gloriously Weird Interior You’d Actually Want To Live With.” From that piece by Thomas:
Not only should this reduce the total swing space of the liftgate, it should also make loading heavy cargo without scratching the bumper easier, prevent cargo from rolling out if you’re parked uphill, and with a 500-pound weight capacity, give you somewhere to sit. Well done, Ford
When Jason and I co-authored a review of the Jeep Grand Wagoneer, we had this to say:
One disappointing thing that makes up both the interior and exterior is the rear hatchback. Specifically, the mere fact that it is one. On a car that feels as premium and costs as much as the Wagoneer does, you kind of expect something more than just a hatch. A hatch is fine, but nothing more. The original Wagoneer, though, had a tailgate design, and there’s something about that that just feels more thoughtful and flexible and luxurious (Land Rovers and Rolls Royce SUVs have them).
Rear Mounted Spare
I wrote an article six years ago titled “The Proper Spot For A Spare Tire Is On The Rear Door.” Here’s what I wrote in it:
Packaging the tire on the back door is simply the best solution. It doesn’t eat into cargo space, it doesn’t compromise ground clearance or departure angle, it doesn’t limit how big the spare can be (though it may require some reinforcement of the door if you put 40s on it), it doesn’t get too filthy during off-roading, it’s easily accessible and, most importantly, it’s downright sexy.
Seriously, show me one SUV that doesn’t look better with a spare tire on the back? Hell, even the tiny Ford EcoSport looks better with a big cylinder hanging off its tail:
Plus, you can customize these tire carriers with political opinions or funny off-road-y text, so that’s always fun.
I pointed out some downsides to a rear-mounted spare — with a big one being that it doesn’t allow for a tailgate:
To be sure, there are a few downsides. For one, the tire reduces rearward visibility, and it also limits what style of rear door automakers can employ—a tailgate and full lift-gate are both out of the question if the tire’s mounted directly to the door. So you’re pretty much limited to some sort of swing-gate unless there’s a separate swing-out carrier (in which a tailgate or a full liftgate are possible). In any case, getting that rear door open is made harder because that large mass is in the way.
Notice how I point out that there is one way to get both the coveted tailgate and a rear-mounted tire carrier — offering a spare tire carrier that is separate from the door. Like on this Jeep CJ-7:
Column Shifter
One thing I’ve been preaching for years is that automakers should stop putting shifters on the center tunnel of a car, between the driver and passenger. Modern shifters are electronic, no longer reaching down mechanically via linkages that move rods to change gears. Those shifters should be out of the way so you can use the space to the right of the driver for storage. Where, then, should the shifter go? I’ve always believed the column is the perfect space, because that space isn’t being utilized for anything else except maybe one or two control stalks.
In fact, I recently wrote the article “GM Nailed The New Chevy Equinox EV, But Would You Actually Buy One?” The article lauds Chevy’s choice to use a column shifter. From that piece:
Yes, a column shifter! No weird screen-shifter, no waste-of-space floor shifter — a column shifter. It’s the right shifter for 2024, and it frees up all this space for cupholders, a phone slot, USB-C ports, and a big storage bin just below the center stack:
When I reviewed a 2021 Ford F-150, I wrote:
The tan trim on the lower dash and doors, along with the column shifter, makes this my preferred interior choice, even if higher trim levels get the bigger screen and the nicer materials.
When I drove an Isuzu diesel box truck with a floor shifter, I wasn’t thrilled, writing:
there’s a standard floor-mounted PRNDL shifter (a waste of space if you ask me; this should be a column shifter),
Here’s what I said about the current-gen Chevy Colorado’s floor shifter:
The Colorado is a truck, after all, and if you look at the transmission shifter (shown above) in the truck — an electronic, center tunnel-mounted shifter that mimics the look and feel of an old mechanical PRNDL — it’s clear GM understands that truck customers like chunky things, even if they’re not entirely logical (the shifter is a waste of space)
Here’s what I said in my Porsche Cayenne review:
A big chunky shifter is wasteful; instead, I think shifters should go onto steering columns, which aren’t used to store anything else, anyway.
Porsche didn’t quite give us a column-mounted shifter, but the new Cayenne’s lever on the dashboard just to the right of the column is the next best thing.
I also lamented the floor-shifter in the new Ford Ranger, writing in my review:
I personally don’t love floor-shifters; I think they’re a waste of space compared to a column-shifter, but Ford insists that its customers want a place to rest their hand while they drive.
You get the idea: I think all non-manual-transmission shifters should be on the column.
Solid Axle
If you’ve been reading my work since I became a full-time journalist in 2015, you know my full name is David “Solid Axle” Tracy. I believe live axles are the best overall choice when it comes to off-roading at low speeds. I’ve been saying this for years. Here’s what I wrote when the new Defender debuted back in 2019:
The setup is also, at least traditionally, considered less robust than a solid axle, and what’s more, it’s definitely more difficult to lift, in part, because the angles of the constant-velocity joints (the things inside the accordion-looking rubber boots on the axle shafts) could get too steep and prematurely fail. So don’t expect to see lots of new Defenders modified to this extent
Here’s a quote from my review of the Rivian R1T:
At a given ride height, the suspension flexes well enough to keep tires on the ground most of the time, though this isn’t a long-arm suspension setup, and it’s certainly not a solid axle design. As you can see in the video I showed before of the R1T in Moab, overall suspension articulation is modest when compared to solid-axle off-roaders.
Here’s what I wrote in my Bronco deep-dive:
But there are some distinct advantages of a solid front axle for off-roading.
The Jeep’s axle shafts are housed inside of a big, strong steel tube, protected against the elements, whereas the Bronco’s axles are exposed. What’s more, whereas the Jeep utilizes universal joints to allow for smooth power delivery to a wheel that’s turning and bouncing over terrain, the Bronco uses CV joints. Among hard-core off-road enthusiasts, many prefer universal joints, as they don’t have rubber boots that can tear and compromise bearings, and they can be easily replaced on the trail using nothing more than a big rock and a few sockets.
Other than durability (again, it’s hard to beat the durability of a giant steel tube, though I bet the Bronco’s forged aluminum lower A-arm is tough enough), another advantage of a solid axle is articulation. And Ford has no problems admitting this.
As someone who loves durability and “flex,” I’m a big solid axle fan, which is why I love that Scout threw one into the Traveler and Terra, even if only in the rear (see above).
Why The Scout Will Not Replace My BMW i3
So Scout basically built my dream car. It has everything I want: A range-extender to support a primarily EV powertrain/drivetrain; a tailgate; a rear-mounted spare; a column shifter; a bench seat; and a solid rear axle. It’s what I’ve been asking for for years, so I’m putting my money where my mouth is; I’ve preordered one:
But don’t think that means this vehicle will replace my 2021 BMW i3S. No, my BMW i3S perfectly fits what I think a car should be, and while the Scout is close to what I think an SUV should be, it falls flat in one critical area: It’s too big.
The Traveler (and the Terra) is huge. At 91.6 inches, it’s wider than a Hummer EV and Ford Bronco Raptor [Update: Actually, 91.6 is WITH MIRRORS, per Scout. So these aren’t quite as wide as the Hummer, but still wider than the Bronco Raptor. -DT]. That’s pretty insane. And at almost 208 inches long, it’s over 10 inches longer than a Bronco Raptor — it’s about the size of a Chevy Tahoe!
This is a huge problem for me philosophically. As an engineer, I strongly believe that the right daily driver is one that requires the least amount of energy to be propelled down the road. This concept can be quantified in terms of “Vehicle Demand Energy,” which can be reduced by making a car aerodynamic and lightweight. The Traveler seems like the antithesis to this. The i3 is the posterchild.
For a vehicle that I’m going to use for daily commuting, I cannot justify the Scout Traveler. Sure, it will be propelled almost entirely by electricity that originated from my wall-plug, but that alone doesn’t mean it’s a sufficiently efficient/responsible car, especially not compared to another electrified vehicle that requires less juice to get down the road.
For this reason, the i3 stays.
If I am so lucky to have a large family in the future, I could justify the Traveler a bit more, maybe as my fiancee’s car to transport around rugrats, but right now, as a vehicle for just me or just her, it’s not quite gonna work. But given how much I want this machine due to the fact that it includes so many features I’ve been asking for for so long, I think it’s probably time to start having kids. There’s no other solution.
When I knew Dad mode was incoming I got a BMW 3 series GT, because that is what adults do. They get the quick but not an M car 4 door and prepare to strap in car seats.
I knew a guy who went from a TVR Cerbera to a 328i Touring* when kids turned up.
*(maybe an E36? I don’t know my BMWs that well, whatever was current in about 2005)
My guess is that if you were really motivated, you could convert the ZJ project vehicle to a range extended EV before the Scout is available, for way less cost. And it would be a better vehicle for most uses, such as actually fitting down tight 4wd roads.
Since when did that little devil on DT’s shoulder who is always suggesting projects get its own Autopian account?
No, no, no, you have it all wrong, I’m just trying to combine projects for efficiency. Instead of a ZJ overlander + Jeep EV conversion + new vehicle purchase + whatever else, I figure just combine them all into just one awesome project. Then again, my high school mascot was (very appropriately) the demons
Soooo…..you’re the angel on David’s other shoulder?
I love the *idea* of this Scout thing but I just worry about what’s going to change between now and its release timeframe – and negatively change, to boot. Maybe that’s the cynic in me, though. 🙁
Namely, range, capability, and price. That’s what Tesla has conditioned us for.
Agree. Also the fact this is ultimately a VW product makes me pause big time. I don’t think I want to be “first” for a new idea from VW unless it has a looong warranty. Of course who knows where you can actually get it serviced either.
I’m also in the camp that this will eventually be priced closer to a Rivian R1S, which means closer to $100k than $50k. Just buy a Tahoe for $75k and buy gas at that point.
Elise is pregnant?
We should start brainstorming kids names now, just in case:
Maybe Emira if it’s a girl and Carlton for a boy? Or maybe Willie for a boy?
Column shifter: I agree that the floor space is better used, but how about pushbutton selector on the dash? I mean, it’s something that you use just two or three times in a single trip and you don’t need fast access to it, so get it out of the way. I probably change the radio station more often than I shift gears in a typical commute. I think it’s time to bring this back – just don’t put it in a g**d**n touch screen…
How functional is the tailgate actually going to be, considering the spare tire? To me, the point of a tailgate is to allow you to carry extra long materials. But you can’t do that here because the spare tire is going to be flapping around, right? Is it removable? Or are tailgates on SUVs just for sitting?
“To me, the point of a tailgate is to allow you to carry extra long materials.”
I have never heard that that was their first intended purpose, and now I am questioning everything….
But, as a former owner of an ’87 Pathfinder with swing out tire carrier, it only had a pin-locking system to hold it open. I wouldn’t trust it at any speed other than, “I’m running this dishwasher down the street to my buddy’s house.”
For this application, it will take .004 seconds before 17 aftermarket companies create an attachment to carry all the Home Depot trip essentials right on the swing arm. Picture swinging out and away any of the following:
Nothing of any conceivable length will get transported wherein the swing arm is a problem because the tailgate needed to be down. Anything that long will go in a specialized Yakima rack up top.
If you’re carrying extra long stuff, wouldn’t the truck be more appropriate than a SUV? Or get a roof rack. I have a Mazda3 hatch and continuously carry ladders with it, stuff that would never fit inside unless I drove with the hatch open.
You can start collecting chairs. One chair takes up about as much room as a child in a car. I know this from experience.
Or accordions. A car full of accordions is undeniably a full car.
Have you ever met Lucinda Williams? Do you play a six string? Have you repaired your shoes with duct tape?
Oddly enough, yes. Not all at the same time though.
that reminds me of when I took the motorcycle safety course years back. I borrowed some boots from a friend and the sole fell off in the middle of the weekend course away from home so I duct taped it together and carried on. it was rainy as well which was always a fear of mine on a bike but I had to get over it that weekend. Aced both the riding and written portions in duct taped boots in the rain!
“But given how much I want this machine due to the fact that it includes so many features I’ve been asking for for so long, I think it’s probably time to start having kids. There’s no other solution.”
Which is why this is the new headline:
“Why I Canceled My Brand New Scout and Bought A Filthy Used Minivan.”
He already owns one… so filthy its diesel!!
True but it’s in Germany and he’s in California. I think CARB would take issue with his bringing it over.
(I could be wrong though)
Good question. There are tons of imported cars in California, CARB must not ban imports altogether, but I think you are likely right that they would take some major issue with mechanical diesels.
Aren’t diesels of that era exempt from California smog requirements? Sounds like a win to me…
It’s styled well because I never imagined it was so big. That’s my only disappointment. But it’s great to see you so excited about something. Best of luck.
Same here. I did the math and this won’t fit in my modern garage unless I park the lawnmower in the driveway.
208” is longer than any minivan sold today. That was a big reason I went with the Highlander (193”) instead of an Odyssey (203”). It actually fit in my garage without having to relocate my big tool box..
“As an engineer, I strongly believe that the right daily driver is one that requires the least amount of energy to be propelled down the road. This concept can be quantified in terms of “Vehicle Demand Energy,” which can be reduced by making a car aerodynamic and lightweight. The Traveler seems like the antithesis to this. The i3 is the posterchild.”
At 100 MPGe and 31 MPG on premium fuel? No it is certainly not.
At 127 MPGe and 52 MPG the new Prius Prime SE is the likely US market posterchild of something with both a fuel port and a plug.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43746&id=47501
Or, you know, a motorcycle.
I assumed we were sticking with things with both a fuel port and a plug.
It would also depend on the motorcycle. My old Kawasaki 250 was amazing at 80 MPG (no freeway) but a lot of sport bikes and cruisers can’t even get half that.
Plus motorcycles tend not to baby well. At least not in the US where you can’t just bungee the kid onto the gas tank.
Worth noting: The i3 does over 4mi/kWh real-world (almost 5 in the city), and nobody uses premium fuel in it (it’s a scooter engine)).
??? The metric in question was what requires the least amount of energy to be propelled down the road, not cleanliness. But OK lets look at that:
Yes the Prius ICE kicks on sooner but it’s still a lot more efficient than the scooter ICE of the BMW. By the EPA’s numbers and my maths if both cars continue through a hypothetical charging dead zone on gasoline only, around mile 235 the BMW will cumulatively begin using more gasoline. That’s assuming the MPG on regular is the same, if not the crossover point will be sooner. And such long trips through charging dead zones is the whole point of a REX amirite?
So sure, if you only drive trips between 45 and 235 miles the BMW is cleaner than a Prius
BUT
A Bolt or Tesla will be cleaner (AND more efficient) still. So for trips between 45-235 miles those would be the poster children of energy efficiency, not the BMW.
Plus with the BMW you’ll need to find a gas station (or refill from Jerrycans) every 75 miles or so which again by my maths means 7-8 extra stops to match the 600 mile no stop combined range of the Prius. Maybe more if the stations aren’t located well or if you’d rather have a better safety margin.
I’m a huge fan of the longer all electric range PHEVs like i3s. All PHEVs should have around 2X the batteries they currently do, broadly speaking, IMO. Including the PHEV Prius. I get DT defending his beloved i3, too. But the Prius is a fully integrated system that should last over 200k regardless of energy mix use, type of driving, etc. The i3 is much more a research and development exercise. The scooter motor in the i3 is not a true automotive engine like the Prius has, in terms of expected engine life, service intervals, etc. So I guess you are both right in a way, but for a truly useable long lived vehicle the Prius wins hands down.
I don’t quite agree, agree, since a PHEV like the Prius involves way, way more complexity in terms of moving parts. EREVs > PHEVs in those terms.
Now, Toyota definitely tends to execute better than BMW; that I’ll give you.
Good point, they really are two entirely different kinds of cars!
A Bolt or Tesla will actually not be cleaner, for the simple reason that they unfortunately are carrying around lots of extra unnecessary batteries. For regular, short commutes (which make up the majority of miles traveled), there’s really no way for them to be cleaner than an EREV with a much smaller battery.
That said, I do buy that the Prius PHEV, though heavier, is the cleaner car thanks to its small battery and reasonably efficient motor. It’s also got a lower VDE. This I’ll grant you, especially on the freeway. For fun, we could just look up the Coast Down Coefficients; those are available on the EPA’s website somewhere.
But your whole point about how the i3 isn’t the poster child in terms of energy usage seems like an odd one to make. Relative to these Scouts, it’s a carbon fiber, ultra lightweight city car meant to eek every bit of use out of a tiny battery. It’s absolutely all about reduced VDE, and a great example to use.
And whether the Prius is slightly more efficient seems like a random point to make, because the Prius is not the most efficient car there is. Check out the Hyundai Ioniq EV. Now THAT’s a low VDE!
So we’re adding manufacturing emissions too? Because despite the added weight both the Tesla and the Bolt will go quite a bit further on a kWh than the BMW making them more efficient consumers of electricity.
And I’m not so sure the bigger batteries make the Bolt or Tesla dirtier either. Bigger batteries mean fewer charging cycles for the same distance so they may last a lot longer than the BMW battery.
(I think a better metric though might be how easy it to reuse/repurpose/recycle as the batteries may outlast the cars.)
I mean, we should. We gotta look at the entire picture.
And if we do, it’s pretty clear that a small battery + Rex is without question going to be cleaner than a huge battery alone — particularly in pickup truck and SUV applications. That’s pretty much irrefutable for typical short-commute motorists (for folks who travel far and use the Rex often, a BEV is definitely cleaner).
Like you sad, that is barring some issues with battery longevity, but I don’t think that’s a significant factor. Or at least, it shouldn’t be if the cell manufacturer/automaker did their due diligence.
(Worth noting that my initial response to your first comment — a response that I shot out while on the move, and about how the Prius’ short 45mi range means it would be dirtier than the i3 due to the combustion engine being on after 45mi was just wrong and silly on my part. It would have made sense to note that a higher-range PHEV might incentivize plugging in more than the Prius and its rather low range, but if plugged in, that Prius is definitely cleaner than my i3 — no doubt).
And if we do, it’s pretty clear that a small battery + Rex is without question going to be cleaner than a huge battery alone — particularly in pickup truck and SUV applications. That’s pretty much irrefutable.
Well then I guess the pendulum swings back to the Prius Prime
I don’t think we disagree about the Prius Prime. I think you wanted to point out that you know of a car with a lower VDE than the i3, which is totally fine. I’m just glad you’re here and engaging.
Just be careful calling my i3 an energy-sucking hog! 😉
Not a hog, just not the posterchild.
Now if you DO want it to be a posterchild I know a guy….
Ok fair, you’re right and I was kinda-wrong. Posterchild was too far.
‘Posterchild was too far.”
Nothing our friendly neighborhood pedicure enthusiast can’t fix.
I have been wondering: Is that REX on an Otto or Atkinson cycle? If it’s an Otto how much better could it potentially be just by going to an Atkinson cycle?
I don’t understand the appeal of a bench seat. I get the practicality aspect but it comes at such a huge cost.
It’s ugly, there is zero bolstering, and it instantly makes the space cramped for all 3 passengers. I wouldn’t want to be driving with someone sitting so close to me and being in the middle feels like the same fate as the center seat in economy class.
And being the middle seat passenger turns you into a bobble head. Physics.
“Stickshifts and safety belts,
bucket seats have all got to go.
When we’re driving in the car,
they make my baby seem so far.
I need her here with me,
not way over, in a bucket seat.”
If you park close to an obstacle on one side everybody can exit the other side door. Buckets and center consoles make that difficult.
Also, a bench seat and a three on the tree allows someone on the passenger side to drive and shift the car and get it up to cruising speed on the freeway before turning over driving duty to the person in the driver seat. I did that a couple times driving cross country with somebody who couldn’t use a manual transmission and it was my turn to sleep.
I’ll admit to not have thought of the second reason but am loving that use case, thank you!
“ugly” Subjective, but simultaneously wrong. You have achieved the impossible.
“zero bolstering” Not necessarily the case, but also a non-issue in all but the most spirited driving. A lack of bolstering is actually preferable during most offroading, as it allows your body to move independently of the vehicle and not be jerked side to side with every rolling motion.
“cramped for all three passengers” Not as bad as two bucket seats with three passengers. Seriously, for the 95% of the time you don’t have three passengers, it is spacious and comfy. During the 5% of the time, you’re dang glad you have that extra seat.
We’ll agree to disagree on the looks.
Bolstering is always nice, especially in situations where the car is moving around. You’d be sliding left and right off road, I’d much rather feel securely fastened down.
What’s wrong with the back seat for your 3rd passenger?
Try a VINYL bench. Ugh.
Ask any woman who wears dresses or skirts about their thoughts on sliding across a fabric bench seat, because unless you are looking for a plausible excuse for your clothing gathering above your waist, it’s kind of impractical. Those kilt wearing truck drying construction workers https://primekilt.com/kilts/kilt-for-men/utility-kilts/black-carhartt-work-kilt.html
Or
https://kiltmaster.com/work-kilt-for-men.html
probably would have a thing to say as well.
Question: Why do all those pictures of construction workers wearing kilts show them installing roofing?
Grippy cloth seats and a seat belt more than solve the problem of sliding around, no need for bolsters to stay put. Trust me, I have jumped a number of vehicles with bench seats or otherwise 0 bolstering, not a problem at all. I agree that bolstering is necessary for vinyl seats, but that is just one of about 100 reasons to avoid vinyl seats like the plague.
I say 3rd passenger because I drive a single cab. 6th passenger in the case of these vehicles. I have needed to transport 6 people in my Crown Vic, and it’s much preferable to have a front bench rather than banish somebody to the trunk.
LOL see my nearly identical response above.
Hah! There’s nothing wrong with the back seat for your 3rd passenger. The use case is for the 6th passenger. A relative has a 98 Grand Marquis with two benches and it is so great to be able to fit 6 whenever you happen to need to do so. Would def get the bench!
“Instantly makes the space cramped for all 3 passengers” – fair, but you wouldn’t even be talking about 3 passengers without a bench. I think a flip-down middle seat is great to have in a pinch. As for a straight bench, my ‘94 F150 has one and talk about lack of bolstering! I tried to use it to commute after selling my “dirty” TDI back years ago and that lasted a week. It was like sitting on a park bench. Later on I did buy a fitted cloth cover and added my own bolsters underneath which helped tremendously!
My Dad had a bench seat in his first truck. He won’t be repeating that mistake. The amount of functionality you give up in terms of comfort and storage are not remotely worth the one or two times you’ll actually carry six people in a truck.
Imagine just having the money laying around to preorder a $50,000 car. I can barely afford groceries.
Uhh you know it’s a $100 refundable preorder right
I do! Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a commitment to spending $50,000 or more, on a whim.
Except it’s not a commitment at all, because it’s refundable. It’s just a spot in line, if 2028 rolls around and you decide you don’t want to drop $50k(actually $80k by then) you totally don’t have to.
Yeah, it’s just a refundable $100 in the instance that somehow I win the lottery between now and then.
I have to say that that is most optimistic comment I’ve heard in quite long time :D. Kudos.
Good article, but I’d say 5:1 odds that David never takes possession of this vehicle due to some combination of delays, glaring product flaws that come to light, personal life changes or the car never entering mass production
That’s an unexpected bit of traditional chauvinism!
Also, consider that adoption is a much lighter carbon footprint than traditional means of child acquisition, and adoptive parents are a sadly scarce resource. You’ve long been a proponent of not buying new vehicles. The same approach to parenthood would be an excellent look on you.
Wait, what? This thing is BIGGER than a Tahoe??
Not sure how I missed that before, but it changes my entire opinion of the vehicle. Doesn’t the sheer size and weight of this thing make it impractical as an off-roader, regardless of what kind of suspension it has and where its spare is located? I’m wondering if the sexy feature list has blinded David to the literal elephant in the room.
Also, there’s the price tag. A base Tahoe starts at more than $60k and a decently equipped Z71 comes in closer to 70k, and that vehicle is rocking a simple, proven powertrain with no batteries. I already thought the $60k Scout was pure marketing fantasy, and that’s when I assumed it was the size of a Rivian. To give a Tahoe-plus-sized rolling brick an electric range of more than 200 miles PLUS a range extender engine, this thing is going to have to have a massive battery pack that costs an arm and a leg. I can’t believe we are taking them at their word on the 60k price tag. If this thing starts at less than 80k I’ll eat my shorts. I would expect the inevitable “first edition” EREV models to be six figure vehicles. The Scout people may be thoughtful product designers but they are still subject to the same basic vehicle economics as everyone else. Go ahead and bookmark this comment.
Pretty sure it’s not bigger than a Tahoe, I think it’s almost exactly the same size. I’m not buying that this is more than the standard 80″ wide.
Yeah, I did a preorder. I like the way it looks and the features. Don’t want range extender though I understand it is the answer for some. HOWEVER, two strikes agains the Scout. 1) It is too big! I like the size of my Jeep JKU. 2) I hope to have a Rivian R2 or something else before this reaches the market.
It seems like removing the E beam axle is not going to be that difficult considering the cost of the parts. Is rear axle theft going to be an issue? That axle is going to cost at least 10k won’t it? And can be removed from outside.
I’m not sure if you’re serious or not.
However easy that $10k E-axle is to steal, it will never be as easy as stealing a $10k Honda Civic.
BURY THE LEDE IN THE LAST LINE, SURE DAVID, I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE
Yeah right? David’s long slow march toward plaid Bermuda shorts and a holster for his phone is well underway.
As a dad I feel qualified to confirm that this is as good a reason to have children as any other.
And David thinks he loves minivans now…just wait…
Column shifters are fine in a truck/suv/barge anything that isn’t sporty. For too long OEMs have pushed giant consoles on us when they aren’t really sporty in the first place, what is the point?
The combination of having a rear mounted spare AND a tailgate/hatch is awesome.
I like column seats, but you know what I like even more?
NOTHING.
In my Astro Van, I put it in park, and then my fiance and I can slip right into the back of the van. Or we can keep the fridge there! Having the ability to not walk, not crawl, but…. GET from the front of the vehicle, into the cargo area, is awesome.
Can they please make an van? A Scoutstro?
Scout, ping me, ID guy looking for work, let’s make the AssTrout a reality 😛
It’s a good thing you’re not part of the team in charge of nomenclature!
(Or maybe you’re the one angler trying to hook a finless brown, I don’t know your world.)
This is the correct answer! I had a 1988 Ford Aerostar in high school, and you could just pop right into the back! Or even just get in from the sliding door and hop right into the drivers seat and take off. EVs should definitely bring this back. Just attach the arm rest to the front seats!
Yay for column shifters and bench seats,
Bench seats and floor shifters are a little scary. Ok , a lot scary.
My 914/6 has the optional middle seat and seatbelt, and I’m pretty sure that it only exists so that if you have three people in the car and get pulled over you don’t end up leaving someone on the side of the road. Either that or or giving the driver plausible deniability when feeling up one of two passengers.
Never knew they had a 3rd seat option, that’s hilarious.
Her: Why do you keep downshifting….
Me: I just like the feel of it, somehow both notchy and buttery smooth; gives me a fizzy feeling.
Him: Oh don’t mind me, I’m just training for my part in the surely upcoming Fast and Furious reboot that I’m SURE to get…after I’m discovered!
Him again: Soooo I’m taking auditions for my leading lady if ya know what I mean…
(Loud sound of a slap and tinny door slam)
Him yet again: OWW! Hey, I was only kidding! Come back!!
A while back I picked up an old Chevy squarebody pickup for my work truck/daily driver. It was the first vehicle in household since we’d been married that had a bench seat and column shifter. Plus that fabulous over-boosted GM power steering that you could spin with one finger all day long, even when the truck was stationary. Wife liked to take the middle seat position so I could put an arm around her and drive with one hand. After 15 years of being married by then, we were still cute and didn’t care…
Bench seats are great. 🙂