I think it’s well established that my Subaru Forester ownership was a little underwhelming and, for the last year, I’ve been on the hunt for a replacement. Well, I’ve finally sold the Subaru and bought something new: meet our new 2024 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport in Radiant Red. Here’s why I think ‘Big Red’ is a perfect replacement for the Subaru Forester.
There were a lot of arguments I made for different vehicles, and I’ll explain why I didn’t end up with those (sorry everyone who wanted me to get a Maverick). If you’re in the market for a new crossover-sized vehicle I can hopefully impart some helpful advice, as I think my situation is fairly common.
The CR-V solves a lot of problems I had with the Subaru and, equally importantly, allows me to keep telling people to buy hybrids without the hypocrisy of not owning one. I know I’m in the honeymoon period, but the CR-V so far has (mostly) met or exceeded my expectations.
How I Got Here
In 2016, my wife and I had a kid and moved out of New York City. A car would be required to ferry our new kid around to her various appointments, daycare, playdates, et cetera. We lived close enough to a train that the Forester would primarily be my wife’s car and I suspected I’d buy something fun for myself as a cheap project car.
I hadn’t been as active in car reviews at the time, and there were great deals on Forester. Having recently driven one around for a week I thought it was good enough for our needs, fairly safe, and cheap enough to pull the trigger.
The Forester ended up being my Joker/Honda-ownership origin story. You can peruse this tag page to see all the issues I had in eight years of ownership, but I can summarize it with the following points:
- My Forester needed way more non-warranty maintenance in the first 60k miles than I budgeted for, including new control arms on both sides and two rear wheel bearings.
- It ate headlight bulbs, and tires, and was constantly just out of alignment.
- The fuel economy was worse than the already low EPA estimates.
- I grew to despise the CVT.
- It looks and drives like everything else.
I’d been sensing something big was about to go wrong with the Forester around the time I got an email from Carvana giving me a better-than-expected amount of money for the car, and that was all I needed to finally pull the trigger.
Why I Didn’t Buy A Maverick, RAV-4, Kia Carnival, Or Cross Corolla Hybrid
I think I’d have been happy with any of the range of cars I tested to replace the Forester, even if some of the vehicles were not entirely serious (I wouldn’t have really purchased an F-Pace SVR because I cannot afford an F-Pace SVR. If I could have gotten $60k on trade-in for the Subaru that might have been a different conversation).
There were, ultimately, four serious contenders.
Kia Carnival Hybrid
I thought the regular, non-hybrid Kia Carnival was an excellent family cruiser. This one surprised me and was also the one my family seemed to enjoy the most. And then I found out that they were coming out with a hybrid! I was excited until they said the Carnival Hybrid was going to start at $41,895, or almost $3k more expensive than the Sienna. Too rich for my blood.
Toyota RAV4 Hybrid
In theory, a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is price-competitive with a Honda CR-V. In practice, the high demand for the RAV4 meant that it’s likely going to be more expensive. I think it’s totally worth it, but after driving a PHEV model I didn’t feel compelled to fight for one. My family also thought the seats were a little stiff and uncomfortable.
Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid
Like the RAV4 Hybrid, the Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid in AWD trim has a little motor to power the rear wheels, and this gives the vehicle a way to travel in a low-speed EV-only mode. I’m a big fan of this and the Corolla Cross Hybrid overall. I built one and the MSRP was only around $33k for a model with everything I wanted. When I showed this to my family they asked if we could drive it. I told them we already had! They didn’t remember it all. Also, actually getting one for $33,000 seems like a huge PITA.
Ford Maverick Hybrid
If it were entirely my choice this is what I’d have gotten. I think that the Maverick is a handsome, versatile, and efficient choice. Being a Texan I love the idea of a truck and I’m sure, with a tonneau cover, it would do everything my CR-V Hybrid does and some things it doesn’t. It’s also a few grand cheaper even after all the price increases.
My family didn’t buy these arguments. The lack of an AWD version of the Maverick Hybrid was a big issue, as almost every other hybrid comes with the ability to power all four wheels. And up here it’s sometimes necessary, although I argued I’d just get steel wheels and snow tires. The lack of a full-time, waterproof storage area was also a point against it.
I tried.
Why The CR-V Hybrid
We do regular traffic meetings and talk to Beau about the site. We were in one of these calls a few weeks ago reviewing our traffic when a few of my previous Subaru articles popped up. I recounted all the issues I was having and Beau joked “You know, we sell cars here…” as a reminder that, when the time finally came, I could consider buying a car from our sister company, Galpin, and one of its many fine dealerships.
Because I wanted something reliable and hybrid, I’d had my brain locked in on a Toyota product given the company’s stellar reputation, even though my wife and I had a good experience with our last non-project car: a Honda Civic that will seemingly be around longer than an Olympics commercial break (friggin’ Peacock). So why wasn’t I actively considering the CR-V Hybrid?
I’ve had the chance to drive a few fifth-generation CR-Vs and I never loved them. The CVTs in the gas-powered models were just as clunky as what the Subaru had, the performance was lackluster, and the costs always seemed high to me. They were not bad cars, they just weren’t for me.
Was the sixth-generation version any better? Friends had told me good things, and I thought the new CR-V was the most attractive version since the original, so I decided to borrow one. After a few days, I was convinced this was the one.
Let’s go back to my original issues:
My Forester’s non-warranty maintenance was too high/it eats tires and bulbs
The CR-V has a reputation for being light on service needs. This is something I’m going to have to prove over time, but already I’m getting two years of free oil changes and tire rotations.
The Forester’s Fuel Economy Is Terrible
I’ve now put more than 1,000 miles on the CR-V Hybrid under a mix of circumstances, and ‘Big Red’ has averaged 38.6 MPG. If I’m being charitable, the Forester averaged 24 MPG on its best weeks. That means I’m getting over 50% better fuel economy. It’s awesome. I’m also finding myself hypermiling more than was possible in the Subaru.
The CVT in the Forester is trash
There are few good CVTs and I suppose the Forester is somewhere in the middle, but being an average CVT still means it sucks because almost all CVTs are bad. The Toyotas avoid the low-speed torque issues you get with most CVTs by using an electric motor to provide low-speed power. The Honda CR-V Hybrid has gotten around this problem by basically not having a traditional transmission. It even fakes shifts in a way that I don’t hate!
The Forester had an unremarkable driving experience
The Forester wasn’t particularly great to drive. It was fine. The CR-V is also fine. It’s maybe a little more fine because it feels more solid and is damped a bit more towards comfort than the Forester. I have to give the Forester points for having better steering feel, even if it only reminded you that the car had again wandered out of alignment again for no discernable reason. Given that this is mostly a school bus that runs around town, the tradeoff for a little less steering feel for a little more comfort is one I’m fine making. I still have my BMW if I want to feel something.
I also find myself “sailing” the car more, which is my version of hypermiling. There’s no dedicated and selectable EV-only mode you get with PHEVs and other hybrids like the Toyotas. This is a bummer as I think I’d be able to get a bit more mileage out of the CR-V Hybrid if it did. The flip side of this is that the transition from gas to electric modes is smoother than any other vehicle I’ve driven, and it allows me to back off throttle a little at 40-60 mph and ‘sail’ the car on automatic EV mode for long distances.
I’m not sure how much gas I save and it’s possible the answer is: Very little. On the other hand, it’s kinda fun.
Why I Got A Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Instead Of A Sport Touring
David Tracy and I both share an inclination towards thrift, which is why it’s so amusing that he spent almost as much on a used BMW i3 that was decontented as I did on a fancy new Honda CR-V Hybrid. A follow-up article is hopefully coming wherein we debate who got the better deal (it was me [Ed Note: I have a carbon fiber body. [drops mic]. -DT]).
You’d think I got the base model CR-V Hybrid Sport because I’m cheap. This isn’t the case. I got the base model CR-V Hybrid Sport because I’m cheap and it’s an incredible deal. The car I reviewed was a CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring, which is the top of the line, with the Sport-L in between.
This is a hilarious way to name trims: Sport, Sport-L, and Sport Touring. Why is “L” between Sport and Touring? Why are they all named “sport”? I don’t know.
The CR-V Hybrid in Sport trim has everything I want in a car:
- CarPlay/Android Auto
- A sunroof
- Auto power front windows (something the Forester didn’t have, just driver-side)
- Roof rails
- Rear A/C (also something the Forester didn’t have)
- Rear USB C ports (ditto Forester)
- Cloth seats (I don’t like the leather-trimmed seats on the Sport Touring)
- Blind spot monitoring/emergency auto-braking/lane keep assist/adaptive cruise control
- Dual-zone automatic climate control
Even better, it doesn’t have a couple of items I didn’t want:
- Power liftgate – It just seems like another thing to break and I don’t need it. I get it if you do and it’s not a critique, I’m just not a fan
- Wireless phone charger – These barely ever work and just take up space.
- Navigation – That’s what the CarPlay is for!
- Bigger wheels – The 18-inch wheels are already big enough
The one item the Sport doesn’t have that I’d want is wireless CarPlay, but that requires going up to the larger infotainment screen. Is it worth another $3k to jump from the Sport Hybrid’s starting AWD price of $35,850 to $38,850? Nah.
I did splurge for the “Radiant Red” paint for an extra $455 and that was it. The only option I needed! My car MSRP’d for $37,655 with destination and handling fees. I know a guy so I paid a little less than that. Overall, what you get on a Sport trim model is impressive and I deeply appreciate a good value.
Honda also has reasonable financing deals right now if you have good credit, so it was really a no-brainer.
Wait, You Bought A Car In LA? How Does That Work?
It just so happens that The Autopian has a new partner in car shipper Nexus Auto Transport. It was a total fluke, I promise. The nice folks at Nexus Auto Transport reached out to me around the time I was looking to transport a car and they were super cool and said we could put a timelapse camera on the truck to film a cross-country journey. It worked and it looks awesome!
Look for that post to come in the next week or so along with everything I learned about the process. In the interim, if you’re looking to ship a car I suggest you reach out to Nexus Auto Transport.
I was so happy to get my new car, and I’ve had a great time driving it thus far. Here was it this weekend:
Look at that sea of whites, blacks, greys, and grey-blues! She’s always easy to find. I don’t love the black wheels, if I’m being totally honest, just because I’m worried about keeping them clean. They look great here, though.
I plan to write up the whole ownership experience and we can find out if my gut is trustworthy or not. The next story, barring any surprises, should be about what I learned from shipping a car from one end of the country to the other.
Did I make the right call?
I’ll be curious to get your thoughts on the adaptive cruise control. I have a good friend with a Passport Trailsport and he tells me that it’s one of the worst implementations of ACC around – lots of complaints on various Honda boards.
Other than that, congrats! Looks like you upgraded the Forester in every way.
I’ve not driven one, but I find it hard to believe it’s worse than a Chrysler Pacifica. It’s simply dangerous.
>”If you’re in the market for a new crossover-sized vehicle…”
And that was his first mistake.
>”The lack of an AWD version of the Maverick Hybrid was a big issue…”
And that was his second mistake(I don’t actually know where he lives or what the climate is like, but if he even considered a 2wd Maverick on snow tires then I’m guessing that AWD is grossly unnecessary).
>”I’m getting two years of free oil changes and tire rotations.”
Falling for that particular marketing trick, are we?
And yes, I am most certainly the “brown manual diesel wagon” type of guy, how did you know?
He said he moved out of NYC and then the car was shipped to New Rochelle, so it’s very likely he is living in that area, somewhere up above the Bronx, maybe in Westchester or the surrounding areas.
AWD is very handy here, as there is a lot of windy and hilly terrain, and the area is no stranger to precipitation. I have a buddy who lives in Ossining and basically every third car is a Subaru. Any amount of snow on their roads and you can forget about traversing them in a 2wd vehicle, even if you somehow had a place to store snow tires at your dwelling, which you likely don’t.
An AWD makes perfect sense as a requirement in that area. Not to mention this is a prime place for hiking trails and your car is likely to do some very limited off-roading in the form of dirt and mud so that you can explore one of the many available trails in the area with beautiful scenery.
Yes! The CR-V’s are great and Hondas in general…Congratulations!
The beauty of black wheels is that you don’t need to keep them clean. Is it black paint or brake dust? Without touching it, you can’t tell.
Yeah, they’re literally easier to keep clean than silver wheels……. Not sure why he’s worrying about anything.
I’m so, so happy that it’s red.
And for you! Totally happy for you!
… But mostly that it isn’t the color of bogwater and mediocrity.
Fine choice. A little boring perhaps, but if it works for you then that’s all that matters.
Subarus eat wheel bearings like no other vehicle known to man.
I’m a big fan of Hybrids and PHEV so yeah I think you made a good call. Congratulations to finally be free of the hateful Subaru.
Not sure how you normally drive but if there are any driving coaches available I’d suggest using them initially. It can help you learn how to brake just under the threshold where the friction brakes are called upon too soon/often. With a little time it becomes natural and you can turn it off. It can make a difference in the MPG.
Regarding “sailing” the commonly used term is gliding and is part of the term Pulse and Glide coined by early Prius drivers. Yes done properly Pulse and Glide does increase MPG in part by avoiding throttle off regen. If there is an option to see the threshold where the ICE is going to be called upon use that screen for awhile to learn how to Pulse and Glide most effectively.
Are… are we still talking about cars?
I performed the Pulse and Glide method on your mother last night.
Looks like a solid buy. I’m in a similar situation in that I want to replace my current vehicle (2009 Outback) with a hybrid. I’m holding out to get a look at the Crown Signia and Mazda CX-50 hybrid.
Wow, I have a 2009 Outback and a 2017 Forester.
I am probably going to keep the Outback and sell the Forester. The Outback is so much nicer to be in than the Forester. I know I could lower it and probably get close, but then what’s the point of having a Forester?
I still have the 09 because that was the newest one I could find at the time with a manual transmission. (That’s right. Manual. Wagon. Brown. If it were a diesel I would win all the credits.)
Our household has a 2009 Outback and a 2015 Forester. We could hang out at the same bar. lol. Alas, there are no Subaru products that interest me these days.
If we both have an Outback and a Forester, we’re probably already at the same bar.
I drove one of these for a month while my previous car was in the shop (before the accident that totaled it). They are, as others have said, absolutely fantastic appliance transportation. The hybrid is great; I swear the gas gauge didn’t move the first two weeks I drove it to work and back. The power liftgate is nice, but the wireless charger is useless. It also took me two weeks to get used to the buttons for switching gears.
To me it’s just a super boring car that looks like just about everything else and it didn’t inspire joy when I walked out to get in it for work. I was glad to return it, even if I didn’t hate it. That’s why I personally could never buy one: I want to look out the window and be excited to get in my car and drive. For all the wonderful things about those CR-Vs, that’s not one of them.
My married couple friends own two, and both they and their kids adore them. Great cars, just not for me. Hopefully you end up loving yours as much as my friends do theirs.
As a 2024 CR-V Sport Touring lessee I say welcome to the team. Ours is Urban Gray Pearl because that’s what my wife wanted. I tried to talk her into the lovely Still Night Pearl, but she was sold on the gray. I’m with you on the power tailgate and the wireless charger. Ironically, the charger was something I wanted because the one in our 2021 Accord Hybrid EX-L was decent, but this one is pretty useless. The big thing we wanted that drove us to the Touring was the memory seats since I’m 15″ taller. For some reason, though, Honda doesn’t adjust the mirrors with the seat memory on either the Accord or the CR-V like it does on the Odyssey.
We’re generally in the upper 30s, occasionally over 40, in the summer and low 30s in the winter. Just crossed 13K miles and have loved it.
I don’t understand why wireless chargers in cars suck so bad. The one in my 2022 WL is basically useless. Occasionally, it will charge my phone with no complaints. But mostly, it charges for 30 seconds and then starts flashing the red error light.
Yet, the 20 dollar one on my night stand charges every phone in my house perfectly, everytime.
I never wanted a power lift gate either, but having lived with it I thinks there’s one advantage. It keeps children and clumsy adults from slamming that poor gate to hell and back. It just eases down and clicks into place.
Looking forward to your discussion on shipping. I’ve mainly used u-ship (it’s like backwards ebay where you post what you want shipped from where to where and different people bid on it). On there I’ve mainly settled on STS transport for cars I care about or want in a guaranteed timeframe, and a “random guy” on there that basically roams the country with his wife towing a goose neck trailer and as long as you don’t care if it shows up tomorrow or a month from now he’ll get it here cheap.
Looking up the CRV hybrid specs out of curiosity, it lists two transmission ratios for “engine lockup low” and “engine lockup high”, so it appears that the engine can clutch in at two different ratios, thus the shifting? Seems like it is a 2-speed, clutched automatic, with an electric motor at a 3rd fixed ratio? Not quite the simplicity of just a fixed ratio transmission, but probably nice to have 2 ratios for the engine to power directly, one for around town speeds, and one for highway speeds.
The way the system works there is a generator residing where a flywheel normally would. On the other side of that generator between it and the traction motor is a clutch and two speed gear set with a low ratio of 1.409 and a high or OD ratio of .708. Between the traction motor and the wheels is the 4.438 final drive. So all power from the engine passes through the traction motor and final drive. So yeah the engine has 2 gear ratios but that still passes through the same final drive ratio that the motor does.
“Like the RAV4 Hybrid, the Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid in AWD trim has a little motor to power the rear wheels, and this gives the vehicle a way to travel in a low-speed EV-only mode.”
No, like all Toyota hybrids, the Corolla Cross Hybrid has an electric motor at the front, together with an internal combustion engine and a smaller electric motor that acts as starter/generator. It does not need the rear electric motor to travel in EV-only mode, the rear electric motor is actually an optional extra to get AWD (that depends on the markets, some get FWD only for some models, some get the possibility to spec AWD in some trims, some might get it as standard) but all Toyota Hybrids are able to get around in EV-only mode without it.
What did you do Matt? You buy a boring, appliance car and now you’re the boring, appliance car guy of The Autopian!
Your soul will be snuffed out as you’re forced to churn review after review of the dullest vehicles in God’s own creation. You’ll be in your death bed and reminisce “I once had fun behind a steering wheel… a long time ago”
I’m so, so sorry.
I mean, it’s no less of an enthusiast car than the Subaru.
True, but it’s no more of one either. And if I remember correctly, Matt’s daughter wanted either the F-Type SVR or the big Sprinter van, so apparently Matt does not love her enough to get a second job and sell his plasma so he could swing the payments on one of those without reducing his contributions to her college fund.
lol
He’s a mild counterweight to the two hoarders on staff here. Anything interesting needs tension, not perfect balance.
As I’ve said several times, the current CRV is like the Ferrari of appliance cars. It’s just so good at being basic transportation.
The comments about buying from Galpin make me wonder if there shouldn’t an option to offer site members a pre-determined discount on new car purchases. Like an X plan or an A plan but an Autopian plan across the Galpin group.
I know I’d use it the next time I’m looking to buy.
Beau? What do you say?
I am down with this.
“Did I make the right call?”
That depends as it comes down to your use case, budget and what you want out of it.
For example, I’d say a Tesla Model Y can do everything better. Of course it will cost more to buy and probably cost more to insure.
I’d say switching to a CRV hybrid was a good call. It will use less fuel and you’re likely to have a better reliability experience.
Well, there’s one conspicuous thing that the Honda is better at than the Model Y………
you made the right choice. when you need a daily driver that can carry the family and their various accessories, a perfectly reliable and normal car in an actual COLOR is never a bad decision.
Yes, the right call was made. Cutting fuel use in half is big. IIRC home charging was dicey and public charging can get worse than gasoline for price and relative convenience so a hybrid was a logical step.
Anyone else read the headline and think “Brawndo, it’s what plants crave!”
First thing that popped into my mind.
Probably not because the people living in Idiocracy don’t know they are.
traded the Subaru riskiness for the robust build quality of a Honda. I hope your CR-V survives until the heat death of the universe.
*looks at calendar, alarmed that it’s the late 1990s again. Finds that it is not.
are you kiddin?? send me right back to the 90s please!!
Yeah but then we’d have to live through the 2000s again. Except for some movies and music, I could probably take a pass on that again.
Unless I could change the past… Hmm…
Heads up, you can get a wireless carplay/android auto dongle that plugs right into your USB port.
I’m thinking about ordering a bunch and testing them. Does anyone care about this?
Yes.
wut
A detailed investigation would be appreciated!
wireless carplay is totally bogus, laggy connections and with those adapters if you are a couple they tend to grab onto the wrong phone and you spend 10 mins trying to fix it. Plus wired means your phone charges.
No, but I’d read it anyhow.
Yes. I use a Motorola MA1 Wireless Car Adapter, it works pretty well for Android phones. When I used the wired Android Auto in my 2020 Civic, it would lose connection when the phone screen turned off and maps and music would go away.
Also congrats on ditching the Forester, I pawned my 2016 off on my daughter for college. It has been pretty reliable other than the AC compressor going out. It was a safe car for her to learn to drive and to commute to work and school. She is used to the horrible CVT lag where you step on the gas pedal and then wait several seconds for acceleration to occur.
I’ve used AAWireless for the last two years in my Ridgeline. Works great, not laggy, and it’s update-able. Around $65 on Amazon. Updated model coming out this fall.
I care and would read that.
Ended up with a 2024 Camry as a rental recently. Wireless charging, but NOT wireless AA. Cable stuck out into the area next toy driving knee – so annoying!!
Both of my cars have wireless CarPlay and I couldn’t car less. It’s OK to have, but not a deal breaker. Plugging in a cord takes less time than fastening my seatbelt and the connection is more reliable. However, testing dongles sounds like a good read.
Those things are very particular about the car that it is connected to so what you review would only be pertinent to that particular Honda infotainment system.
Do it
I got the cheap thing off Amazon,
Dododuck Wireless Adapter 2023 Upgrade Plug & Play Wireless Dongle Converts Wired to Wireless Fast and Easy Use Fit for Cars from 2015 (Android Auto)
That was based on reviews on the Maverick forum. So far it works just fine.
Just too bad the CRV doesn’t have a big sunroof like the Forester 😀
Also, the Maverick *is* available with a cap, so you’d have a waterproof storage area 🙂
If I had a place to store it I’d be down.
You store it on the bed 😛
I’ve got a big sunroof in my pickup (and a smaller one in my GTI). I have opened the sunshade on the truck about 5X in 4 yrs and the glass about 3X (to put Gummi Pflege on the gaskets). It’s like sitting in a greenhouse (hot) and always noisy, noisier when you open the glass. The GTI is less noisy.