If you’ve needed a car in the last three years your options have largely been to either hope you can pay more for what you want or settle for something that wasn’t exactly perfect. There are exceptions, but a lack of inventory and a strong demand has made the market difficult for buyers lacking unlimited funds. The good news is that transaction prices are down, incentives are up, and even the automakers most impacted by supply chain shortages are seeing inventories starting to increase to more normal levels.
But how normal? That’s sort of the question today as we look at where automakers are, what kind of pricing is out there in the market, and what might put all of this at risk. Plus, some off-road racing news, because I like off-road racing.
Also, I’ve been off in the U.K. for a week and appreciate Patrick, Jason, and Thomas stepping up to keep TMD running smoothly.
It’s Now Time To Consider That New Car
As Thomas noted recently, it’s been a weird time to buy a car this year. Some automakers are floating in vehicles while others are still trying to get back to normal production. This means that there’s been no real consistency in the carbuying experience. Sure, if you want a Tesla Model 3 or Model Y you can probably make that happen fairly quickly (though the price might suddenly change on you).
The good news is that, finally, things are starting to improve, and I’m willing to update market conditions from maybe getting the car you want to maybe getting the car you want at a reasonable price. This assumes, of course, that you don’t want a Ford Maverick Hybrid XL (just bump up to the XLT, it’ll be fine).
You want proof? Honda and Acura, two brands absolutely wrecked by supply chain issues, dramatically improved in July, with a 53% increase in sales over last year’s dismal July for the former. Acura, too, was up 45.4%. You want a fun number? Honda cars are up a whopping 96% year-over-year, led by the newly redesigned and super fresh Honda Accord. It’s Happy Honda Days all over again! Toyota’s improvement wasn’t quite as dramatic, but with an 8% year-over-year increase, they’re also headed in the right direction. Even Subaru, which has had the tightest inventory for a mainstream brand, is starting to get more Foresters and Outbacks in stock.
Here are some more good numbers, via this Automotive News report mostly, that show the market is improving:
- JD Power/GlobalData show that incentives are up about 107% year-over-year, or about $1,888 on average. You want a Jeep Gladiator? Stellantis is offering $6,453 off and employee pricing for qualified buyers.
- Inventory is up about 64% from where it was last year, about inline with what we had last month.
- Cox Automotive said supplies are lowest in Florida and highest in places like Denver, Detroit and Seattle. So, clearly, try to buy a Jeep Gladiator in Seattle if you want a deal.
If there’s one number that isn’t great it’s the average interest rate for a new loan, which is expected to be 7.1% last month, up 1.8 percentage points from a year ago. If you can pay cash or put a big deposit down it’ll help a lot.
Ferrari Thinks It’s Gonna Make Even More Money
It’s great to be Ferrari right now. Every car is sold. Sure, the F1 team isn’t quite there yet, but the rest of the motorsports program is pretty strong and the tifosi are still pumped. Plus, unlike Toyota Corolla buyers, Ferrari customers are completely flush with cash.
Oh, and the money keeps pouring in. From Reuters:
The company said it saw its adjusted earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA) growing this year to between 2.19-2.22 billion euros, versus a previous forecast of between 2.13-2.18 billion euros.
[…]
The forecast for full-year EBITDA margin, however, remained unchanged at around 38%. The expected cash generation was also broadly unchanged, seen at around 900 million euros versus a previous guidance of up to 900 million euros.
A 38% margin! These are, in the carmaker universe, not huge amounts of money, but the margin is undeniably insane. People get excited when Tesla’s margins are above 20%.
The Nissan Titan Costs Just $47,665 And Is A Truck You Can Buy
Am I going to borrow a Nissan Titan? Yes. At some point I want to borrow a Nissan Titan. It’s a vehicle I keep forgetting exists and then I see one and I’m like “Huh, yeah, that. That’s a truck.” Maybe it’s good! They only sold, like, 15,000 of them last year so they are quite rare as far as new pickups go (that’s about a week’s worth of F-Series sales). Eventually, Nissan might drop the Titan for a smaller EV pickup, but who knows.
Pricing has just been released for the 2024 Nissan Titan and you can now get a base Titan SV Crew Cab 4×2 for just $45,770 before a destination charge of $1,895. That makes it just a hair cheaper than a similarly equipped Ford F-150 XLT with the 5.0 V8.
What do you get for all of that? Here’s what Nissan says in its press release:
Every 2024 Nissan TITAN delivers the power, technology, safety features and reliability prized by truck buyers, wrapped in bold Nissan styling. The standard 5.6-liter Endurance® V8 gasoline engine delivers best-in-class standard 400 horsepower (excluding EVs)3, along with 413 lb-ft of torque. Nissan Safety Shield® 3604, a suite of six advanced driver-assist systems, is also standard on every TITAN.
The standard V8 is a big class differentiator here and probably appeals to someone. Is that you? Defend the Nissan Titan in the comments. I want to hear it.
The Unlimited Off-Road Race Series Is Back In 2024
Earlier this year, the Martelli Brothers of off road racing fame, said they were going to combine the Parker 400, Mint 400, and California 300 into something called the Unlimited Off-Road Racing Series. The fun thing about this series is there’s basically every kind of off-road ATV, truck, et cetera imaginable competing. Also, they keep asking us to bring beaters out to pre-run the course and it’s something we have to have to do.
Well, now we’ve got dates:
Unlimited Off-Road Racing will host all desert car, truck and UTV classes, including youth, and host motorcycles at two of their marquee events, The Mint 400 and The California 300. The new series will also feature the next evolution of the UTV World Championship, which will be determined by points accumulated at all three events. The Parker 400 will take place Wednesday, January 10th through Sunday, January 14th, followed by The Mint 400, Wednesday, March 6th to Sunday, March 10th, and The California 300 from Wednesday, October 2nd to Sunday, October 6th, 2024.
Hmm… this gives me some ideas.
It’s Your Turn
Ok, folks. What’s your best idea for the worst beater we can bring to pre-run one of these events? It could be something we own (i3?), or something we should buy.
Photos: Off-Road Racing Series, Stellantis, Honda, Ferrari, Nissan
Did a search for a BRZ yesterday and the nearest one was 500 miles away and an auto. Not sure what this is better than, but I’m not done sitting it out
I’m sorry, I’m sure I’m living in the past, but the phrase “just $45k for a new truck” is absolutely batshit bonkers ca-RAZY.
No, it’s still a lousy time to buy a car. Cars are overpriced and interest rates are insane.
I thought they were going for the old real estate agent line that it’s always a great time to buy
As for the now’s a good time to buy a car, I’m not sure if I’m “buying” that!
*increasingly loud, deranged chuckling*
The reason Stellantis is finally dropping cash on the hoods of these cars is because their MSRP’s are downright insane. For example, we’ve all beaten the whole 38k Renegade thing to death here. They’re not the only one’s I’d accuse of using the JC Penny “mark everything up ludicrously high, but immediately put it on “sale” strategy” but they’re certainly the worst. For anything else, interest rates are still reasonably high, especially compared to what we’ve all been accustomed to this century. Until we start seeing these inflated MSRPs adjusted down via 1.9% for 60 months, or $3000 cash back offers on models that people actually want, I will contend that this is still a very shitty time to buy a car.
Just because the last couple years have been historically bad for car buying, doesn’t mean we should be pleased by an ever so slight adjustment towards normal.
I don’t disagree. I bought a 2020 Wrangler Rubicon in the fall of 19. Custom order and I think the MSRP was around 50k. Sold it the following year. Thought about getting another one, built it online, and more or less the same build as my 2020 was closer to $65k now.
Smart decision to ditch your JL, thanks to Stellantis knowingly placing two types of bare metal together and using really cheap metals my 2020 Wrangler Rubicon unlimited (around $55k MSRP, 83k km stored underground) is rusting under the paint on every exposed body panel. In and around ALL hinges, and various other places throughout. First and last Jeep I will ever buy.
Not necessarily beaters but I would love to see you take a literal base model wrangler and compare it against a base model bronco. Rubicons and Sasquatch packages are cook but how far can the base platform take you. Then again, in the alternative, I’ve learned that if the answer isn’t Miata, its usually Crown Victoria. Do it… you know you want to.
Send Mercedes in one of her Smart cars as the pre-runner!
Need to use David’s “holy grail” ZJ for the pre-runner. He can even do a series of his trademarked “Will I get it done in time?” articles about it.
Keep one of the cats as the navigator.
Keep
oneALL of the cats as the navigator.FTFY
Doing some math. The average new car in 1970 cost about $3500. The average household income (mostly single earners) was $9870. So the average car cost 35% of yearly income.
Today the numbers are $48,000 and $87,864 (many double earners) or 55% of average household income.
That is a huge increase and the primary reason that manufacturers are targeting the luxury market. They are the only ones that can afford a car. Note that numbers might be even worse if median incomes were used.
Note, I picked 1970 because that was the first new car I remember being purchased, by my parents.
It’s actually a really interesting year to pick for another reason. Prime interest rate in March of 1970 was 8.5%. That’s the prime rate today, as well.
It was also a good spot because new-car prices hadn’t really risen too much from WW2 until then – a basic Chevy-Ford-Plymouth listed around $1600 before sellers’-market mandatory accessories and other price-paddings (sound familiar?) while in 1970 a basic 6-cylinder/3 on the tree listed at a little over 2 grand.
Of course, automakers and the public thought of the full-size models as the true successors of the earlier single-model offerings, and en masse liked to buy V8 automatics with nicer trim which put an Impala, LTD or Fury so equipped well over three grand and pushing $3500 but the existence of the base compacts so similar in size, engineering and function to their precursors of 25 years before makes it easier to pick apart true inflation and size/feature creep.
Much harder now with so many automakers abandoning entry-level offerings.
The housing prices at that point were also significantly lower, which further exacerbates this. If you have to spend more on both housing and transportation, that’s quite a squeeze.
Also the average US house was ~1500sqft and cost much less to maintain
This is actually pretty recent; new cars tracked pretty well with inflation until just a few years ago (example: average new price in 2019 was $36K).
I do feel compelled to note that the average new car in 1970 had lap belts as the extent of its safety equipment, got 12 mpg, and came with a 5 digit odometer because no more was expected of it. The humblest Mirage or Versa today can be expected to last 200,000 miles or more with minimal care, comes with features found only in S-Classes not long ago, and will likely protect its occupants from death even in a highway crash.
I somewhat agree, though I think the belief that most cars have 200k+ in them these days… well, similar to life expectancy I think we maxed that out about 20 years ago.
I know my experiences are totally anecdotal, but most of the people I know have a mixed bag of experiences with major out of warranty failures that bricked their cars long before 200k. Multiple brands (Nissan especially) have had a hell of a time with shitty CVTs over the past 15 years. Hyundai/Kia have had their fair share of engine failures. Chrysler is Chrysler, and Fords aren’t typically even well sorted straight from the factory right now. It’s hard to anticipate whether you’re actually going to get a long lasting vehicle when you buy new.
Are modern cars likely to last twice or even three times as long as they did in the 70s and 80s? Oh god yes. But I don’t think we’ve made much progress on durability and reliability in the past 20 years. And we haven’t even seen the impact on reliability from the modern tech in this generation of cars. I think the argument of “you get so much more car for your inflation adjusted money though!” was far stronger then than it is now.
Edit: I will admit, you certainly get better safety and features for the price these days, even if half of the features that are standard or mandated probably don’t cost that much money for manufacturers to provide.
Well, the OP did use 1970 as his benchmark.
To your larger point though, it’s always hard to know until the cars are older. Right now cars from 20 years ago appear to be the most reliable, because they are the ones still driving around at 20 years old! I would need to see some crystal clear evidence of the opposite occurring to reverse my prior assumption that car reliability has been increasing for a century.
I don’t want the past to be tinted with rose-colored glasses either. Cars have *always* had issues from the factory. Engines and transmissions have always had premature failure. The fact is, we look at things like Nissan CVTs now as the exception rather than the rule. I’m old enough to remember when *every* automatic called for overhaul after some mileage.
In short, if I took 100 random 2023MY vehicles and compared how many are on the road in 2043 compared with how many of 100 random 2003MY vehicles are driving around now (given equal maintenance), I’d bet on the 2023s. But we won’t know for 20 years.
Oh certainly, and why I understand that my experience is in fact, anecdotal and not derived from actual data.
I guess I’m just a little skeptical when people pull the “yes your Honda Pilot may have cost 50k, but modern cars last so long, that the 7 year loan at 8% you might take isn’t even THAT bad of a deal if you think about it!”
I have thought about it, and it in fact seems like a bad deal. I don’t like making bets that assume everything is going to go smoothly for 10-20 years. Cars are life, and life is messy.
Maybe I feel more like the longevity of the modern car is a little overblown because I, in my mid-30’s am certainly not comparing them to likes of disposable K-cars.
I guess I’m just jaded on the attitude, because I’ve been hearing about how an imminent or ongoing technology change will reverse the trend toward reliability and make cars into fancy computers that can’t be repaired in a driveway since fuel injection.
Usually the Luddites are older though, and bitch about ridiculous things like TPMS or touchscreens.
Hell I’ve caught myself falling victim to the attitude when I assume small turbo engines are less reliable without any real data to support the idea. I have to actively try not to fall victim to that anymore.
Ultimately, I don’t have data either, but I think the resale values of used cars speak for themselves to an extent. I wouldn’t be surprised if your thesis is correct in the sense that the *rate* of improvement is slowing, but that isn’t the same as things getting worse.
Yeah I think we’re just approaching a plateau for durability and reliability I suppose. And yes, no one can be certain how reliable “new tech” in cars is going to be, and I’m sure some of us are incorrectly applying experiences from past consumer electronic experiences. An apples to oranges comparison (potentially anyway).
There’s certainly a contingent of luddites here, haha. And I think we’re long past the days of the average person doing their own significant mechanical work on their personal cars, so I think the amount of “tech” in cars isn’t going to have a huge impact on reliability for most people.
Yes today’s cars are much safer, comfortable, and long-term reliable. On the other hand, my Dad’s new Chrysler 300 transported the family of 6 with luggage comfortably for many years, towed a heavy trailer, had really cool fender mounted turn signal indicators,… and got 9 mpg!
Sounds like my F350 (minus the turn signals)
On the upside, cars today last considerably longer. That’s probably not music to the ears of the manufacturers, but still.
“The good news is that, finally, things are starting to improve, and I’m willing to update market conditions from maybe getting the car you want to maybe getting the car you want at a reasonable price. This assumes, of course, that you don’t want a Ford Maverick Hybrid XL (just bump up to the XLT, it’ll be fine).”
At least in my area, all Maverick hybrids still have whopping market adjustments of $7-$10K. So jumping up to the XLT does nothing to help you get the car you want at a reasonable price.
Maverick XL or XLT, still a huge ADM on every hybrid.
Same here. I’ve even seen Ecoboosts with markups. Hybrids? Forget about it.
At the implication of this article, I did a search for new Gladiators and Wranglers. If the pricing I’m seeing is what employees get, I’ll keep my current job, thanks.
I don’t know if the supplier discount is the same as the employee discount, but some of the prices I see around here are better than the supplier discount I’m eligible for via my employer. And the dealers don’t stack their discounts with the supplier discount.
Employee discount is much better than supplier.
Your experience is just like mine when I had a couple supplier discounts. It was trivial to get a dealership to sell lower than the fixed supplier price. Despite buying several cars while I was eligible, I never once used it.
I work for one major car manufacturer and our Employee discount is double the Supplier discount.
Should be noted though, the Employee discount isn’t as high as you’d expect as an employee. It it was told to us that the company still expects to make money even on employees and that is one of the ways we contribute to the company’s success. Feed the hand that feeds you.
Somehow Toyota sold nearly 900,000 cars last month alone, but I can’t find any for sale. Dealership lots near me have damn close to zero inventory.
If you want to buy a popular or desirable new car, expect to place a factory order and wait. If you want a
ChryslerFCAStellantis product or maybe a Kia, then you have your pick to choose from.IDK where you are, but around here all the KIAs have $10k ADM stickers on them. One dealer quoted me $34k OTD on a Rio5 with an MSRP of $19k.
Yeah, the only Kias I see staying on lots here at MSRP are AWD EV6. I think that’s just because everyone wants the range of the RWD.
Not even a factory order. With Toyota you pick from what the dealer has coming in. They can preference towards something you want, but still only standard builds.
Can confirm. I went to a number of SoCal Toyota dealers recently asking for a manual 2023 Tacoma only to get laughed at (literally, in one case) by their sales staff. If you want the boring truck everyone else is buying, there’s a chance that you can get one as they come from the factory. Otherwise, good luck getting what you actually want since the dealers I spoke with can’t even put in a specific order.
I propose a combo effort for this event.
Mercedes works on importing a cheap, potentially frought with issues, JDM off-roader. Boom, more importation articles for us. Then give it to DT for fixing, off-road prep. He’s on the west coast and should be able to take delivery of it I’d imagine. Maybe prep a Delica (probably a bad choice for a race lol) or something else ridiculous. The worse it is, the better. Boom, ridiculous wrenching articles.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Reminds me of the saying / reply (could be to a project car, long road trip, or really all fun adventures)…
“That sounds like a terrible idea, how soon can we get started” 🙂
Well you do have access to prepped w210 E-class. I believe off-road racing has become too uncomfortable, those trucks don’t even have windows. Show those truck nuts what class looks like. On the start line with the A/C blaring, comfortably in the finest leather. You may not win win, but everyday spent in a E-class is a win.
This is the correct answer.
Until interests rates become less ridiculous I still don’t think it’s a good time to buy a car for normal folks. 7% interest or more is quite a bit of money over time, especially when most desirable vehicles still aren’t being discounted at all, and the average price of a new vehicle transaction is still hovering around $50,000.
What percentage of the population do you think can walk into a dealership and plunk down $50,000? Maybe the top 3-5% of earners? And that doesn’t even take the fact that dealerships are still marking cars up left and right into account. While I accept that the free money era of the late 20 teens/early COVID will likely never return and don’t expect 0% APR and thousands off sticker to be a thing again, unless you’re flush in liquid assets or want a Jeep I still think you should be waiting things out for a while.
I expect we will soon see a return to “0.9% or $XXXX cash back” incentives that used to be common before the low rates of the last 15 years.
Prime borrowers will be able to buy cars well below the normal rates, at least for stuff that isn’t in high demand.
But since we aren’t quite there yet, I agree with you that waiting a bit longer is better if you can.
Yeah, and to afford those cars, a lot of buyers are going to have to go with really long loans with worse rates for a given credit score and obviously paying even more.
Car to prerun the events in? Audi Allroad, with the air suspension swapped for proper rally suspension.
Original audi already for extra S&M points
Do you still have the Official Autopian Test Car (aka the bio-hazard Scion)?
Anyway, about the Nissan Titan…SQUIRREL! What were we talking about again?
New Accords have suddenly popped up everywhere around me, and even Integras are more common than I would have expected. A coworker got one of the latter, mostly because the lease was a better value than Hondas would be.
Camry sales were up in the first half of the year, which seems like it will continue for the time being as 2024 is a carryover year and 2025 supposed to be the redesign. That will make it the longest running generation of Camry to date. I do wonder if part of the Camry’s pickup in sales are from people who otherwise would have bought an Avalon but don’t “get” the Crown.
I also think the Camry hybrid is a great value and the Crown further reminds people of that. I went and looked at a Crown and would absolutely prefer a well-equipped Camry for significantly less money than the base Crown if I were purchasing a sedan right now.
I’m one of the sickos who thinks the Crown is kind of cool….but unfortunately it’s really overpriced for what it delivers
Yeah, I was excited when they announced it, but it’s really underwhelming for the price. At a lower price, I’d definitely be a lot more interested. They do seem to be selling, so I don’t expect to see one at the price I’d be willing to pay in the near future.
I think the Crown not having the Max powertrain out at the start didn’t help either, the first ones on lots were the standard hybrid, and if you’re in a Toyota showroom shopping the car lineup, you probably are swinging for a pretty high up model, and you’re already at $40k plus it’s rather unconventional looking.
The Crown is also in ES money, so that’s an option if someone is willing to project a Lexus image – which they may not, as outside of the old “Japanese Buick” image, the Avalon was sort of old money/quiet luxury, at least in my area.
And the Avalon felt like quiet luxury. The Crown just…doesn’t. It doesn’t feel spacious, and it doesn’t feel special. It feels nice enough, but the Camry is too close to it for too much less money, in my opinion.
I’ve been reserving judgment til I sit in one myself, but even Toyota dealers don’t seem gung-ho about it. And on the space, for a high-riding sedan I’ve heard headroom stinks for taller folks.
I think the headroom is what really made it feel too tight. I’m only 6’1″ and the roof felt close. It felt smaller inside than my parents’ Camry (a 2019, I think). I don’t know as it is smaller inside, but something about the proportions made it feel that way, at least.
All that and the pano glass roof doesn’t even open!
It does have less interior room, fueleconomy.gov (my quick go-to) shows 98 cubic feet interior space and 13 for trunk vs. 103 and 16 for the Avalon Hybrid respectively. An ES hybrid is 97 and 14. So not small-car tight, but tight for a $50k sedan in a Toyota showroom.
I think of the Crown as a new version of a hybrid Venza.
If the Crown was a liftback, it would have been a game changer in the sedan space
New Accords and Integras are absolutely everywhere in my area. I fully expected the Integra to be a flop but normies are really into them, and if you’re willing to suck up a CVT and go light on the options they’re excellent buys. I don’t really see the value in a $38,000 loaded manual enthusiast build when the Civic SI and Type R exists, but the regular person builds in the low 30s are a lot of car for the money.
Plus they’re being discounted, at least in my area. Dealerships are still being dicks about the manual ones but you can get auto ones for under MSRP….and makes me remain furious that they didn’t stick the ILX’s DCT in them. It’s sitting right there and Honda still chose to handicap the Integra with a goddamn CVT.
My coworker got a CVT but same A-spec Tech as the manual comes; for him it’s a commuter & holdover til he gets something more true performance oriented down the line. I agree with reviews that say Honda CVTs are the better performing out there, and the fake shifts when giving it the beans felt way more natural than the sprinkler head feeling fake shifts that others have done. But, I don’t want a CVT if I were going auto*, I’d be more inclined to consider it with a different trans too. Honda’s 10AT is probably heavier duty than needed too.
It’s definitely nice, to me the value didn’t seem to be there by the sticker price alone against a Civic if you just want leather and/or roof, and even top-to-top Integra vs. Civic Sport Touring, up to $7k apart. But the Acura dealers near me have as many Integras in stock as all types of Civics, so definitely more availability. With more dealer incentives at Acura I can see it way more.
A hybrid would be a sweet spot if possible when the Civic hybrid hits. Although that is the Accord, and realistically Honda would be wiser to get a hybrid HR-V out.
* and even in manuals, for my taste I’d be happiest with the combos they’ve only built for Canada – Civic Si with heated seats, or a Sport hatch manual with moonroof and bun warmers. (Or just drop the manual hatch Sport and Sport Tourings and make a single Si hatch, then they can drop the 2.0/6MT combo entirely.)
I would get a Civic Si if it had the heated seats and steering wheel form the Canadian spec. I wonder how expensive it would be to just order those parts and do it myself on an American spec one
I know heated seats aren’t a difficult addition aftermarket, and Honda even has offered a heated steering wheel as an accessory on some models like the CR-V, but it’s the principle that the old Si had them, and “plain” trims like the Civic EX still do.
Coming from a GTI now, I’d maybe look past it in an Si hatch, but as it stands that’s a few too many things I’d be giving up. Sport Touring 6MT exists, but is unobtainium.
I have no idea why Honda has such an aversion to:
1). Using that 10 speed in general
2). Offering a decent auto in their fun cars
I kind of get it to an extent. Manuals are universally loved, they’re a huge part of Japanese car culture, and they make the cars seem more exclusive/offer a gatekeeping effect. JDM bros really do take pride in the whole “if you can’t drive stick you can’t drive it” ethos.
…but it’s stupid. Toyota does the same shit too. Both companies either don’t offer an auto at all or if they do it’s such an obvious nerf to the car that it’s not worth considering it…like the CVT in the Integra or the ancient Aisin 6 speed in the Toyobaru.
But guess what? Lots of folks would rather daily an auto, and that’s fine. It also has performances benefits. I also think the Integra Type S will lose potential sales without it. Anyway, it perplexes me that there are easy solutions to this and Japanese manufacturers would rather stubbornly force everyone into manuals then make use of them.
As I said yesterday…I would buy a GR Corolla or CTR/Type S tomorrow if they had a good auto option. And before I get booed out of the commentariat, I can drive a stick. I haven’t gotten to the point that I’ve mastered hell-toe downshifts or anything, but I have enough practice that I can drive a manual car around without stalling it or nuking the clutch.
I just don’t want to daily one. My wife can’t drive stick and my commute is a 30-60 minute slog through bumper to bumper traffic. This is a big part of why I wound up in my Kona N…
I’m kinda in the same boat as you. I’d like a manual, but my wife simply cannot master the moves necessary. She could get me to the hospital if she had to but a tow truck would be in order. Ambulance bill vs tow and mechanic bill. Still miss my ’15 WRX.
I also wouldn’t want to teach my wife how to drive one on a nuclear hatchback. It seems like a great way to overwhelm her and send me to the service bay for a clutch replacement.
I’ve never driven one of those hatchbacks so I can’t say for sure, but generally it’s easier to learn to drive a manual in a powerful car, because it’s harder to stall.
My grandmother could get the Viper away from a stoplight without trouble, and I could do it in 4th gear if I wanted to.
Meanwhile, when I lived in Europe, it took me a while to stop stalling the tiny 1 liter hatchbacks I had, even though I mostly knew how to drive stick at the time and could manage on American cars.
The only manuals I’ve ever driven are the woefully underpowered base Crosstrek and an NA Miata I learned on/still drive on occasion. I had the most trouble with the Crosstrek. The NA I can drive smoothly but it’s definitely a little fussy about going into first. You kind of have to whisper sweet nothings into its ear and be very gentle. It does NOT take well to a clutch dump.
I’ll take your input into consideration amigo. It’s not an area I have experience in. I have a cousin with a manual 911 GTS convertible I’ve been pining for seat time in but he lives 4 hours away and I don’t think he’s in a rush to hand the keys to his $200,000 custom ordered 911 over.
I really should just go take an Integra Type S or CTR for a test drive but I don’t don’t have enough self control. I’d probably leave with one, and the wife would be summarily displeased with the use of our money.
Is this a hypothetical, or do you have the most awesome grandma, ever?
I thought my mom liked good cars ( I am currently driving a G37x I inherited from her) but a grandma driving a viper – that is next level!
Sadly, it’s a hypothetical, although I do know some other grandmothers who own them.
Yeah, that would be awesome!
The car makers complain about enthusiast cars not selling but then don’t make a good automatic to go in it. how many more Integra type S cars would they sell if it had the auto from the TLX type S?
Porsche does it correctly and makes tons of money on their sports cars and the other car makers don’t copy that. It’s silly really
This is a case study that I’m going to be very interested in. I personally want an Integra Type S down the line and think it’s a special enough car that I’d be willing to deal with the urban living sacrifices a manual forces you to make to have one. My wife won’t be thrilled, but I’m sure I can borrow a clunker with a stick from someone to teach her how to drive one.
But I don’t think that the average person looking at 50-$60,000 luxury sport sedans is going to be as keen on it. A lot of, if not most of, the folks in that market want a good automatic. It’s been 10 years or more since stick shifts have been commonplace in luxury cars.
I think selling $30-40,000 cars that are a manual only to JDM bros and enthusiasts is relatively easy. There’s always going to be a market. But I don’t think selling $50,000+ manual only cars to luxury buyers is going to be easy. I was very surprised that they didn’t find a way to put the 10 speed in the Type S. It already works with that powertrain too…the old Accord 2.0T has a detuned version of the same turbo 4.
I’ve only read problems with the 5.6 V8 that the Titan has. Issues with catalytic converters, cams, oiling issues, they seem to be a bit of a mixed bag. However, I do wonder if that’s also due to the average Nissan owner and their penchant for a lack of maintenance.
Yeah, it’s a mixed bag unfortunately.
There was/is a recall for a few production years VK56VD 5.6 v8, cylinder 7 not getting enough lubrication because an oil jet was installed incorrectly on the assembly lines.
Google NTB19-057a for more details.
I believe 2020 and newer are not impacted, and it’s a really nice engine otherwise.
Other issues are carbon buildup on valves because it’s DI only, and the earliest years had a problem with the high pressure fuel pump.
There are a few problem years of that engine, and the header mounted catalytic converters are not my favorite thing…. But they have been making this engine long enough to fix most of its issues (meaning they will change it soon) Our 2016 QX80 has 150K trouble free miles and still feels like all 400HP are accounted for. Just don’t do long oil change intervals.
I defer the pre-runner beater question to Mercedes. She has more experience taking ill suited vehicles off road than anyone else.
Bonus points if David Tracy joins, finds a rusted out abandoned Jeep on the route and patches it together enough to drive it home!
I vote Project Cactus for the Unlimited Off-Road pre-run.
Buy an old dune buggy and run that race!
Well, there were a couple of cars that “just need batteries” posted earlier today…
More realistically, I think the right Smart would be great.
I guess I don’t see why this is a big deal, since everyone but Toyota at least lets you option a V8. Something being standard or not doesn’t really make a difference to me. Even if I wouldn’t buy a 4 or 6 cylinder, why is less choice considered good?
My neighbor does have a pretty new Titan and loves it. In his defense, it’s a really sharp looking truck and tows his sizable boat no problem. It wouldn’t be my pick if I had to buy a half ton (no more steel bodied trucks in the rust belt for me), but I do think it’s a more compelling choice than its given credit for.
I think it’s potentially important to note because that means the base price includes it, but I’m with you on preferring choices.
It does seem some models seem to be set up to pretend they are a value (“MSRP of X, available with maximum towing,” maximum towing is a lot more money, but they’ve anchored in your mind that their truck is cheaper than competitors’ trucks and very capable). I can at least appreciate that Nissan is not playing that game.
Right, but the base price is already the same as the F150 with the V8 anyways.
I’m not saying the Titan is a better value, just that I can appreciate that they aren’t trying to play games to show a lower MSRP than what people are actually going to buy. They figure most people buying the full-size pickup want the V8, so they start there. I can appreciate that about it. And it’s kind of a gamble to do it, since others can advertise a lower starting price by having smaller engines available.
Also…that’s a 5k increase over the 2023 model. It’s due to dropping the base S trim, which is how a number of price increases have happened, but usually that results in a more dramatic headline, even though it might be like kicking it when it’s down in this case.
Standard V8 was a more notable differentiator at $40k, where it was cheaper than competitors to get that combo.
ChangLi Prerunner! Or a Honda Grom.
The Titan is better than the shit Detroit coughs up yet costs less than a Tundra 🙂