Right now I’m selling an awesome electric car for what I would think is an insanely good price, and yet it’s a hard sell for complicated reasons that really only apply to electric cars. Here, allow me to explain my experience selling my first electric vehicle.
Back in the spring of 2023, I bought the cheapest BMW i3 for sale (by a dealer) in the country: A dark gray 2014 model with 135,000 miles on the clock for $10,500. For a carbon fiber car with a world-class interior, backup camera, self-parallel-parking feature, and an extremely good quality build, I thought it was a fantastic deal.
But the deal just got better. Because the California Air Resources Board requires all hybrids to have batteries covered for 10 years, 100,000 miles, BMW actually replaced my high voltage battery (which had dropped below the 70% state-of-health threshold) absolutely free. So now I have a fantastic range-extended electric car with a brand new battery, and I only paid $10,500. Over the past year, I’ve fallen in love with the i3, so much so that I subsequently decided to buy the ultimate version of the car, a 2021 i3S Giga World.
But it gets better. Now I’m having my car’s AC compressor replaced, also thanks to that CARB warranty, meaning the two major failure points on the BMW i3 are brand new. My i3 is basically a brand new car if you consider the value of the new components compared to the value of other wear components on a 145,000 miles vehicle, and if you get in and drive my i3, you’ll see that it feels like a new car, too.
Of course, now it’s time to sell the car (since I don’t need two i3s), and the process has been… different. Certainly different that I’m used to, as I’ve had to navigate some things that just don’t apply to ICE-powered vehicles.
Obviously, selling the car for the same price that I bought a 135,000 mile i3 with an old battery and compressor seems a bit silly. Yes, a year has elapsed and EV values have crashed, but the car has clearly gained value. And if you look at other i3s on the market, you’d conclude that, too.
[Note: Because discussions about money tend to get folks riled up, just know that this article is a discussion about some of the complex factors that go into selling my particular car — things I’ve never dealt with before in an ICE. In the end, the market will decide the value of my car, and I’m not really concerned about that. I am still learning about a few elements of the used EV market (esp. in regards to warranties, EV incentives, and tax rebates), and I’m sharing some of those learnings here. -DT].
It’s All About Mileage
The issue is trying to communicate that to buyers for whom EVs are a new concept. The average American car-buyer looks at a car’s miles and uses that to assess condition (I do to a certain degree, as well). My i3 has 145,000 miles on it, so the average consumer naturally thinks: “Uh, there are 10 i3s with half as many miles for less money; why would I buy that one?”
The answer, to us car enthusiasts, is obvious: A new high-voltage battery is a huge deal. And a compressor is also a huge deal. Those combined obviously outweigh the benefits of having 70,000 fewer miles on the suspension and brakes. Especially since it’s not clear that my 145,000 mile car is going to have more suspension/brake issues than a 70,000 mile car. At least, you would think.
Impressing this upon buyers has been a challenge. Getting folks away from the “miles are everything” mindset that they’re used to is just not going to happen because there was really never an equivalent before. Even selling a car with a brand new engine isn’t quite the same, since ICE cars have complex drivetrains that wear out with miles. With EVs, drivetrains are simple, so a new battery really goes a long way towards refreshing a car. What’s more, a new engine often indicates that an engine was poorly maintained, whereas a new battery just means… time has elapsed and the car got a new battery.
To be sure, miles don’t not matter; if all things are equal, they tend to indicate wear of certain components like suspension and steering and brake parts, plus they also are used to stand in as a representation of how much time the car was in service. And since time tends to degrade things like blower motors and other long-term-wear parts, miles are no doubt a worthy part of the “what condition is this car in” calculus.
But clearly a car with 145,000 miles and a new $30,000 battery and $5000 compressor is a better buy than a car with even 50,000 miles on a worn out battery and a compressor that can kill the whole car any second. But that’s a hard thing to impart upon someone, especially when cars tend to be valued by major valuation entities by mileage on the odometer.
But is is not my only issue.
Things Are Complicated: Tax Credit
The lack of understanding when it comes to the sheer value of a new battery/compressor is among my primary problems, but arguably as problematic is the way the government has set up the used EV tax rebate. It really, really hurts my sale prospects.
You see, an electric vehicle’s eligibility for the used EV tax credit (which is 30% of the sale price up to $4000) does not depend upon whether or not the vehicle has been used for the credit previously. My BMW i3, for example, has almost certainly never been used to receive a used vehicle tax credit because I’m fairly sure I’m the second owner.
And yet, I cannot offer a buyer the used EV rebate because of this unfortunate rule:
To qualify, a vehicle must meet all of these requirements:
- Have a sale price of $25,000 or less. Sale price includes all dealer-imposed costs or fees not required by law. It doesn’t include costs or fees required by law, such as taxes or title and registration fees.
- Have a model year at least 2 years earlier than the calendar year when you buy it. For example, a vehicle purchased in 2023 would need a model year of 2021 or older.
- Not have already been transferred after August 16, 2022 to a qualified buyer.
- Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds
- Be an eligible FCV or plug-in EV with a battery capacity of least 7 kilowatt hours
- Be for use primarily in the United States
The bold print above may lead you to think “oh, it says qualified buyer, and you weren’t qualified for the rebate when you bought it.” Unfortunately, “qualified buyer” basically just means any buyer. And since I bought my car in April of 2023 (eight months after that August 16 date), the car is no longer eligible for a used EV rebate. Ever.
This is a huge issue when trying to resell an electric car. Why buy my i3 at my $12,000 asking price (or even at my own purchase price of $10,500, which is what I listed it at before the compressor went in) when you could just try to find a $15,000 later model and knock off $4,000? You basically get a $15,000 car for $11,000 instead of a $12,000 car for $12,000.
But there’s more.
Things Are Complicated: CARB Warranty
But there’s more to my plight here beyond just struggling to get buyers to understand how big of a deal a new battery/compressor is, and beyond being unable to offer buyers that tax rebate. To people who live in CARB states, my new compressor may not actually be a huge selling point.
The battery is still a huge deal, and who knows, maybe an educated buyer will understand that and buy the car for 12G’s (it is likely the cheapest, loaded Giga-World i3 with a guaranteed good battery in the country). But here’s the thing: If a CARB-state buyer picks up a BMW i3 with significantly under 150,000 miles on the odometer, they really don’t have to worry about the compressor. At least, not for a while.
That’s because the compressor — in CARB states — is covered by a 15 year, 150,000 mile warranty. My i3 will be out of warranty in 5,000 miles; if someone were to buy the aforementioned hypothetical 75,000 mile BMW i3 for less than my i3, they can be comfortable knowing that if their compressor goes bad, BMW will cover it until their car is 15 years old or has 150,000 miles on the clock. Their battery, too, has a 10 year warranty, so if a buyer picks up a 2015 or 2016, they could theoretically get a new battery should theirs fail.
But see, that’s a big if.
If a buyer were to pick up, say, a 2016 BMW i3 for $9,000, they’d be thrilled that they got a newer car with way fewer miles for $3,000 less than my car. But there’s a good chance their battery will not drop below the 70% threshold by year 10, and there’s a chance that compressor will hang on for 15 years.
We’ll ignore the compressor/15 year warranty since that’s six or seven years out, and buyers don’t care about that. But the battery thing is a big deal. When that 10 year-warranty passes in the next year or two, the buyer could be stuck with a car that has a 75% battery state of health. With my car, instead of driving a vehicle with an eight year-old battery that has 75,000 miles on it and probably an 85% state-of-health, you get a brand new battery. And if you’re worried about the 145,000 miles spelling the end of that 15/150 warranty, never fear, for the compressor is brand new.
[NOTE: Here’s an i3 for sale on Carvana. It costs $13,590, and it clearly has a worn-out battery, showing 39mi of range while full. Yikes!].
Again, it’s a bit complicated to explain.
My i3 Is A Great Deal To A Very Specific Customer. Very Specific.
So here’s the thing: Yes, it’s hard to convince buyers how valuable a good battery and compressor are; and yes it’s gonna be tough to sell the car at $12 grand given that it’s not eligible for the used EV rebate; and yes, CARB-state customers are going to say their car is still in warranty anyway.
But to a very specific customer, my 145,000 mile BMW i3 perfect. But that customer is very, very specific.
BMW i3 customers are already rare given that it’s a relatively low-range small car in a country that loves big trucks, has range anxiety, and is overrun by increasingly-cheaper Teslas with more range. But even among those folks looking specifically for i3s, I need to find a customer who a) Doesn’t live in a CARB state and b) Isn’t eligible for the IRA rebate.
For example, imagine a single person making over $75,000 AGI (or perhaps they already took a used EV credit within the past three years) and living in, say, Texas, looking for a budget-friend i3 for commuting from a suburban ranch to a workplace in town. If this person wanted a loaded i3 Giga World with a guaranteed good battery, they’d have to buy a 2017+ i3, since the 2017s had great batteries that degrade minimally. But then they’d still have the concern about the compressor; if it goes out, they could be legitimately hosed.
For this out-of-stater who doesn’t have the security of the CARB warranty and who also isn’t looking for an IRA rebate-eligible i3, you could argue my i3 is the best deal in the country. But my god is this a ridiculously specific person I’m looking for.
Yikes.
Anyway, I just thought I’d share that, since some of these issues are ones I’ve never had before when selling ICE cars. There was no IRA rebate to factor in, there was no ridiculously long CARB warranty, there wasn’t a massive knowledge gap in the general public about EVs.
Maybe I just need to be patient, or maybe I just keep the gray car and let the Grail go. If it’s between that and letting a perfectly good i3 go for a song, the cheap bastard in me will probably win out… It usually does.
Wait…
Is this still available?
Jokes aside, I truly appreciate this article as it does give a lot of thought about what the majority of used cars in the not so distant future will be. Battery performance test results are going to be stat we see listed next to mileage in the ads. Kudos for things to evaluate and selling/buying points of view.
A couple of things.
A/ Everyone needs to chill out about this. David is presenting something that in the future is going to be a quite common predicament. The fact that we are all reading and commenting on it says something.
B/ Was the ‘Texas buyer’ a snide reference to the first arcticle where ‘a subscriber’ from Texas used this forum to get deep into red/blue politics and complain that David was not allowed to change from a spaghetti showering parts dishwashing part tetnus rust fueled frozen Jeep wrencher?
Actually, no! Sounds like I missed something!
Great article and vigorous comments! I think David is searching for Mr. Spock (someone who can evaluate the purchase with cold logic) who also lives in non-CARB state and is not eligible for the EV tax rebate. Unfortunately for him I think logic-driven people are not attracted to brands with slogans like “Sheer Driving Pleasure” and “The Ultimate Driving Machine.”
My brother and I are engineers, logic driven people. We’ve been attracted to BMWs multiple times. After much consideration, the best BMW value for performance, initial cost and cost of ownership is an e36, hence why we own and daily an e36 M3.
We drove an i3 when new, it was a riot but also gave me the worst case of vertigo I’ve ever experienced all due to the aggressive regen braking. I do think the i3 is a fine car, but it’s also outclassed by most other EVs so people looking for a cheap EV with some performance are flush with better options.
Too true!
This has really got me thinking about the difference between high-mileage, older ICE cars vs. EVs.
Consider the same situation: 10 years old, 145K, but an ICE vehicle with new engine instead of EV with new battery. I think the EV is considerably more valuable. I think I run screaming from the engine swapped ICE.
Great, thoughtful article, thank you David. I don’t understand why you’re getting some of the flak you are getting here in the comments.
Also, as Usernametaken said, you may want to just take a bath on this one. You have to value your time and effort in selling things.
Much appreciated!
Yeah, whenever I see a high-mileage car with an engine replacement in its description I immediately close the ad. Why did the original engine fail? Was the replacement done correctly? Is the “new” engine even any good? Assuming the answer to the first question could be neglect, what other things are going to break?
So, to me, someone saying they have a 145,000 mile car with a replacement engine does nothing to the value at best, lowers it at worst. I don’t know if corners were cut in the engine replacement or if parts that shouldn’t have been reused were put back in.
I would apply the same logic to EVs, but with a caveat. If the battery was installed by some guy in his garage, or the battery was restored by cracking it open and replacing dead modules, that’s not worth anything to me. But David’s situation of a fully brand new battery installed by experienced techs and there’s still a little bit of a warranty left? Ok, now I’m on board.
I’d buy a 500,000-mile Phaeton with an actual brand new engine in a heartbeat. Wait, no, Mercedes, that’s a bad idea. lol
Mercedes.
Consider this before auto closing the ad.
Many new engines are just that, or rebuilt by good shops, or people at home.
A new engine comes with a warranty. As you mention in your comment.
But to be honest here, an engine (used) installed by the guy in his driveway is usually something I approach with a lot of doubt.
Very true Col! The cars I’m usually buying high-mileage have depreciated so far that a legitimately new engine is worth as much or more than the car itself is…and you’re still left with a 145k-mile VAG product when you’re done. lol
So, whenever I see a “new” engine advertised in, say, a 150k-mile first gen Audi TT, it usually means “junkyard engine” or “taken out of a parts car.” But I would buy a used car with a legitimately new engine, but I’ve never seen that in the market I buy in.
I offered to buy DT’s i3, too, but I’m even more of a cheapskate than he is, so even the $10,500 he originally paid is more than I’d pay.
I have bought some used stuff with junkyard or owner rebuilt engines a few times. But have always felt like I was perhaps driving a ticking bomb. Being able to see receipts, etc. can make it a lot less stressful.
And as an aside, I enjoy your camping stuff a ton.
I’d trust a junkyard engine swap a lot more than the unknown-guy-rebuilt-in-his-garage engine.
The junkyard engines all come with a (short) warranty, so if the first one is bad the junkyard would replace it (yes, the labor is on you, but that’s the main gamble with the used engines), while a rebuild can end up bad in a thousand different ways, even if done with extreme care by an experienced engine builder (not to mention all the different things that get replaced/renewed or not, as part of the ‘rebuild’).
Agreed.
I have been doing my own rebuilds for 50 years now. Stuff that I don’t have the tools for gets farmed out. Like heads, block, etc. Guess I’ve been lucky because have never had any issues with my engines.
Junkyard engines scare me because you don’t know anything about them, unless it’s still in the car. Then one can examine the car to get a general idea of what kind of owner it had.
And I never trust how someone else rebuilds an engine in their garage. Have actually torn down some of them, and discovered some really stupid crap. But that’s life.
$10,500 is what he paid a dealer. He’s now doing a private sale and somehow thinks he’s owed an extra $1500 for 10k miles worth of engineer farts and two trips to the dealership for warranty repairs.
I’m not sure I understand this “he thinks he’s owed” mentality. Nobody thinks anyone’s owed anything. I’m just listing a car that I took a risk on and bought really broken for $1,500 more now that it’s not broken. The market will decide if it wants it; it may not! But based on what I know about the i3 market, I ultimately think it will IF I can find the right buyer (whom I describe in the piece).
You’re literally ‘I know what I gotting’ because the market is very unlikely to value the car as highly as you are.
Your $10.5k purchase price was before the surge in cheap used model 3’s and very cheap leases on Hyundai / Kia EVs.
You want to explain to people that somehow ~145k miles is pretty much the same as much lower mileage. Even though it may be true as an ownership experience, it is definitely not the case when it comes time to sell.
This car has essentially ALL the strikes against it when it comes to a used car.
I wish you luck with the sale, and hope that the fact that your reach can help you find the oddball buyer you require, but for a non-published civilian selling this vehicle your price is going to be a bit high.
I don’t disagree with many of your points! Based on what I know, I do think there’s a buyer to whom it very much is worth 12, but maybe I’ll end up being wrong, here; wouldn’t be the first time! I’ll keep you posted.
I’m sure I will read all the updates. I hope you make me eat my words.
Seems like you are in the clear.
https://www.theautopian.com/why-my-electric-car-is-so-hard-to-sell/#comment-483787
I also have that same reaction for most newer cars, but exceptions can be made for older ones as illustrated by this actual conversation from when I bought my ’82 Jaguar XJ6:
Me: So, what was this engine out of?
Seller: Not 100% sure, I think it was a Camaro. It’s a 350 – there’s some paperwork that comes with it, but I’ve never went through it.
Me: Any idea of how many miles are on it?
Seller: The engine? No idea. Same with the car – the odometer’s broke. I can say the oil only has around a couple hundred miles on it, although it’s been several years since I changed it.
Me: Any other overall issues with it?
Seller: Just the electrical – the lights all work, but that’s about it.
Me: So… if I try to drive it home tonight, what’s the best you can do [asking price: $3500]?
Seller: Uh.. idk, $2300?
Me: Sold!!
We did make it home even though we couldn’t open the windows or sunroof and it was 90+ degrees out that evening. I’ll never forget my daughter, who was six at the time, drinking a comically big Gatorade and sweating like crazy saying “Dad, this is the coolest car ever!”
We still have that Jaaaag. Fixed the electrical (most of it was one bad relay), put over 25,000 miles on it, and used it for quite a few of my daughter’s driving lessons. Sometimes you have to roll those dice!
Also, when manufacturers replace engines under warranty or extended campaign, it’s often just the long block…not anything attached to it. This can give people a false sense of security, because they think they’ve got an all-new engine and should start their maintenance schedule all over (if they do any maintenance in the first place).
When my sister’s 2014 Soul threw a rod due to the 2.0-liter defect and Kia replaced it, they transferred all the hoses, belts, pulleys and accessories from the original engine. It was the same for my mom’s 2012 Sonata Limited 2.4, which also threw a rod due to an assembly defect.
Better yet, a shower, since it’s just about lunchtime in L.A.
“take a bath on this one”
I think he prefers showers
(w/ spaghetti)
the big question then is if you say swapped a 100K LKQ engine for an original 279K motor would you disclose this or let the buyer think they just have really good running 1/3 million mile car.
I got an Autopian subscription as a thank you for this set of articles. I didn’t buy David’s i3, but I got a different, cheaper one from someone who was on the same general wavelength but was willing to come down a bit. It’s the perfect car for me, which is to say almost nobody else wants one. I love it.
We just need to clone David Tracy so we can find the specific buyer he’s looking for
What’s stopping someone in CA from buying that i3 and then doing the warranty replacement on the battery and getting the 4000 rebate? They get a car the same as yours, for cheaper.
It was first purchased in 2015, so it’s still under the 10 year battery warranty.
DT knows what he has lol. He is just having trouble getting the silly persons not interested in what he’s selling to understand same. OK. I’m so amused by this feature length craigslist posting. Nicely written. And GLWTS! Edit: Also congrats on the interest your post generated!
My mom assesses cars this way. It’s only mileage, nothing else matters. It’s hard to explain to her why I trust my 450k mile land cruiser over her tahoe with 115k. Hers is already having transmission issues.I think it’s her whole generation though. My mom is a boomer. When she was young all cars pretty much had the same build quality and all that mattered was the mileage. That was the ultimate determining factor as far as assessing condition. Also she basically refuses to have a car with more than 100k on it. I’m amazed that she still has her tahoe. But again, when she was younger, 100k miles was a lot for a car. My 450k mile land cruiser is nothing short of a freak of nature for her.
My Leaf is now six years old. Battery is at 81%, and my range has gone done about 15mi (about 110mi range given my commute and how I drive). When that range drops to 100mi, I’m going to relegate the car to backup status or trade it in.
I’ve never traded a car in before, I’ve either sold it via craigslist, or given it to a family member. As you’ve outlined, dealing with all the ins and outs of selling a used EV is too much trouble.
That 2014 i3 for $12,000? Here’s the problem with that… for a bit more money, you can get a newer Tesla Model 3 that is bigger, has more range, better tech and has better all around performance.
For example… this 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range for $18K:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/724710869
It has at least double the range, is 4 years newer, will have MORE battery/powertrain coverage left than your old i3 and is a better all-around vehicle that will likely have much better support in the future.
To me, your 2014 i3 is more like a $9000 car… And that’s with the replaced battery and compressor. If either of those things were broken with no warranty coverage, then I’d estimate the value to be between $0 and $5000.
I look at this in a similar way as I look at my 1964 Notch. I have done a lot of things to make it drivable. I also know that I should disregard turning a profit for what I have done.
David, has gotten glorious use out of the I3, And though serendipity of CARB rules, has increased the intrinsic and functional value, but the sales value in reality has not really changed no matter what.
Like him, I value my Notch, but know what I have done is not equivalent to what I can sell it. Reality should be embraced and acknowledge someone will benefit from your labors. SELL it for what you can get from it and be happy someone will maybe get the I3 to 200,000
Did you ever fix the body damage?
I would say that since both items were fixed free, you should price it at “excellent” book value and get rid of it. you won’t get more. “good” book value if the damage is still there.
Top end of Book Value in Beverly Hills is a tick over 8K. at that mileage getting financing is going to be hard and expensive. You certainly could probably sell it fast even at high book value with the Ac and battery receipts to share from a dealer. but considering the AC is also free for a buyer, it would not increase value much. the Battery may help more if you refer tot he article and how it would not have applied now. but I don’t know. BMW anything is rarely built for anything longer than 7 years and maybe 80K miles before they are mechanically totaled. That Break My Wallet badge also likely scares some away.
Ultimately the way the EV market is affected by the tax credits absolutely creates a disincentive to buy used. This causes them the essentially disposable as the depreciation rate is so high. What bank will finance a vehicle that depreciates faster than the payments reduce the balance owed. This is why Chinese EV’s may work, cheap and functions like the PC market, basically disposable after paid off. We used to call it planned obsolescence now it’s progress.
Even worse is the fact that you can get the 30%/$4k tax credit for buying used, but not from a private party. So David can’t even soften the blow by telling the buyer that they’ll at least get up to 30 percent off at tax time or during the transaction.
I mean he could park it in a sketchy area unlocked but I doubt that anyone would want to steal it either
honestly, I think your purchase of the Grail was ill advised from a financial standpoint, unless you feel the material it has already and will contribute in the future makes up for it. I think you should keep this one and sell the Grail, unless you know you can mine it for more material in the future. Otherwise, yeah, cut your losses, you aren’t used yet to the concept that ‘you have more money than time’ but that is where you’re at right now, big shoots.
That caption in the featured picture is all wrong, it should read “my owner overrates me”.
Regarding major components being replaced, I faced the same issue with my 2006 Mazdaspeed6.
The original owner had thankfully bought the longest factory extended warranty and Mazda ended up replacing the long-block due to oil consumption at about 137000km (85000 miles). They also replaced the turbo and re-sealed the PTO and rear diff earlier on, while I had to replace the clutch at ~90000km.
When it came time to sell the vehicle, people were wary that the engine only had ~40000km while the chassis had ~180000km. Even though the car had less mileage on important and expensive parts, people weren’t interested. In the end, I sold it for less than what all original cars of similar mileage were selling for.
I react the same way in some cases. Was the engine replaced because the car was mistreated or neglected? Was the replacement part brand new or just refurbished? Was the part broken in properly? Was the work done by a reputable shop? All questions that can cause shoppers to look elsewhere.
I followed the story when you bought the first i3 and got the warranty replaced, but how. If it’s a 10 year/ 100K mile warranty, doesn’t that mean that a car with 135K miles doesn’t qualify? Or is it just a 10 year warranty without a mile limit?
The battery is 10/150, everything else is 15/150
Your buyer is likely on an i3 forum or other community. When you get this specialized thats the way to go.
Question from someone who doesn’t live on the West coast…is saying “CARB state” the same as saying “California?” Or do some other states also fall under CARB rules?
Other states have adopted CARB rules. I forget the list but its around a dozen of them.
David, you only have to find one buyer. And yes, that will take time. This one buyer will need:
While the whole world was going ga ga over electric cars I sat back and waited to find out how the market would depreciate these cars. What I suspected has come true, they depreciate to a far greater degree than ICE cars and that impacts the cost of ownership significantly.
It’ll be interesting to see if there is a bounce back over the next couple of years. Lots of people can’t or won’t afford a new one, but lots of people also need another car for perhaps a kid or just whatever reason. At some point a used EV is a heck of a bargain compared to lots of other overpriced stuff out there. These cheaper used EVs have the potential to show a lot of advantages and dispel some of the FUD out there and eventually demand may well increase again, supporting resale prices.
David – you only need one buyer. Eventually you will find that buyer. Maybe you will need to list the car more than once. Maybe you will need to ship it back to Michigan and sell it there. But eventually you will find the buyer for your car.
It is now over 10 years old & over 100,000 miles so it is out of warranty. If the next owner has issues with the battery (which can happen at anytime) they will have to shell out that $30,000 from their own pocket. A battery is going bad just sitting there doing nothing. A properly stored IC engine can fire up after sitting for years or decades. You needed the equivalent (in price) of like 10 new IC engines & it’s only 10 years old! My newest vehicle/daily driver is 32 years old & still has the original engine, transmission & rear. My other, 35 year old car, also has the original engine & rear (I converted the transmission from automatic to manual).
I’ve said all along, EV’s are disposable cars that are worthless as used cars.
This interesting article really begs a deeper dive into range extended EVs. The Leaf you recently sold, once its battery is dead you are SOL stranded on the side of the road until you get some way to recharge. So all pure EVs can be “soft bricked” causing range anxiety. Compare that to a hybrid or PHEV, when the battery is depleted the car will still function albeit less optimally. There is value in this for a used car and not knowing the full history of the battery and its overall health. The battery becomes less of a deal breaker.
You may get more success with your listing if you explain this. The REx can’t run the car by itself but does the i3 REx allow it to regain charge independently over time? By that I mean if you sit at a gas station with a depleted battery feeding fuel into the engine , will it trickle charge itself to full or do you absolutely need to find a plug? Which range extended EVs allow this and which don’t? And how would they behave on an EV with a severely aged battery?
We’re at this point now where answering these questions determines how viable EVs are as used cars and how we value them.
As sold the i3 can’t meaningfully recharge its battery. Now some PHEVs can charge their battery while you drive or are parked and have a reasonable sized gas tank so a battery that has lost a lot of its capacity doesn’t have a significant impact on the overall range of the vehicle.
Since the battery capacity is a function of the total emissions of a hybrid (total gas emissions over a drive cycle), a minimum battery capacity is required to function properly before getting CELs and going into limp mode. This same logic is why the fuel tank range is limited on the i3; if it had more gas range, it would need to conform to more stringent emissions standards.
To me, having the battery replaced is like having a motor rebuilt. It is nice, but the rest of the car still has the mileage on it. Also, dealers do not care, and most people do not sell or buy on the private market, so the value to the dealer for trade in or purchase is the only thing that matters. The book value is the book value, and that is all it is worth.
See, it’s actually quite different than having a motor rebuilt. If I see a 145,000 Toyota Corolla has a rebuilt motor, I’m thinking: Yikes! I’d rather have a well-kept 145,000 mile motor. This indicates that this owner didn’t take care of their car. RED FLAG.
But with an EV, it’s different. Finding an i3 that hasn’t had its battery replaced — even one that has been beautifully maintained — just means you’re getting a worse-performing car. Replacing a battery is zero indication of how well a car was maintained.
I see your point, but a bank will not, and I doubt many buyers will. The bank will will only consider the book value. You are looking for a buyer that gets what you are saying, is willing to pay over book value because of it, and has the ability pay cash for the car. That is going to be a very small pool of buyers.
Completely agree.
I’m late on this one but honestly… I don’t see the reason for all of the hate. As someone who has purchased and driven used cars of around this mileage my entire life, it’s much more valuable to me to know a car has been taken good care of and that expensive repairs have been done. I can do brakes and suspension and normal wear and tear things myself. Not a big deal if I have to do that 10k or 50k miles after I get the car – it’s going to happen. But if the battery lasts me until the car does? HUGE bonus.
I am guessing many commenters here giving the hate buy new cars or lease. Because in this price range, the quality of the vehicle and it’s history is much more important than mileage, and that quality can definitely be worth a small premium.
I’d honestly be all over this if it were a larger car (I live in Michigan). As it is, a Volt is probably my next commuter as those are much more common and less expensive to start with.
We bought our first and only EV used, it needed a battery replaced under warranty (thank goodness it was covered since it was $14,000). We drove it 5 years and when trying to sell it, gave up and even the dealer that did the battery warranty only offered us $5000 on trade: with a brand new $14K battery. We traded to another dealer for $9000 and walked away. I don’t like the idea of renting vehicles via leasing, but that is the only way to have an EV in this market since the buyers of used cars don’t understand how to value them.
Someday replacing the battery in an EV will be seen the same as replacing the battery in your iPhone, not like replacing the engine in your ICE vehicle.
That day is not today.