Sometimes, creativity has its pitfalls. I mean, I can’t imagine biting into a candle that looks like a deceptively realistic apple, but I can imagine that somewhere in the world, someone has. Every so often, a little bit of clarity is nice, and some car buyers are about to get a dose of it. For the 2025 model year, Toyota is ditching the Prime model designation and instead calling the plug-in versions of the Prius and RAV4 the Prius Plug-In Hybrid and RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid. Not particularly imaginative, but I reckon that’s for the better.
With the Prius, Toyota states that “The change to the Prius Plug-in name is intended to help consumers more easily identify the powertrain choices among Prius models.” As for the reason for the RAV4, replace “Prius” in the previous sentence with “RAV4” and that’s the statement. It’s a move that should’ve happened long ago because well, it just makes sense.
It’s unusual that Toyota chose the designation Prime for its plug-in hybrid models, especially considering the Prime nameplate was only used in America, Canada, New Zealand, and South Korea. They aren’t made of USDA beef or related to Optimus or numbers only divisible by one or itselves. Each Prime model isn’t a coating applied before paint, or affiliated with Logan Paul, or a GPU offloading solution for the Linux kernel, either.
Okay, Toyota claims that Prime signified “the best,” and it’s easy to see some argument for that, given we’re talking about quicker, more powerful cars than their traditional series-parallel hybrid equivalents that can also be more efficient so long as you plug them in. However, lots of people don’t really give a toss about cars, and if it doesn’t say exactly what it does on the tin, they can get a little bit confused. After all, someone buying a plug-in hybrid without realizing they have to plug it in to get the best power and efficiency isn’t a great experience for everyone involved, so think of this as Toyota’s way of saying ‘are you sure?’
To complete the change in naming convention, the revised grid-rechargeable Prius gets a PHEV badge on the back, and that’s it. As for the revised grid-rechargeable RAV4, it gets a new PHEV badge on the back, new Toyota emblems without blue halos, and that’s it. Simple, easy stuff to make two vehicles more comprehensible.
So, same Priuses and RAV4s, better names, more sensical badges. The committee for emblem honesty is chuffed. Exiting the minefield of murky electrified vehicle naming designations is a war of inches, but it seems parts of Toyota have come out the other side. Now if only we could come up with something snappier than bZ4X and get Mercedes to stop calling a car with a two-liter four-cylinder engine a C63, that would be great.
(Photo credits: Toyota)
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JFNF
Cut that out already
I actually kinda liked the Prime name. Was nice Toyota had something with some pop. The beesforks has got to go through.
I think Prime as a “brand” for PHEV was a really neat idea. But i respect that Toyota doesn’t want to spend money in marketing Prime as a brand and would rather drop it. It probably has to do with the introduction of the Crown brand. with the Crown supposed to be “the best” having the “prime” cars as a lesser of the “crown” cars is dumb if you stop to think about it for 3 seconds.
You mean it’s NOT a special edition you can order with your Amazon subscription??
I’m surprised to see the RAV4 isn’t getting redesigned for 2025 given its’ importance to the company and the fact that it’s been on a 6-year design cycle and this marks year 7 for the model that debuted in 2019.
At that it barely got a midcycle refresh – I thought for sure they’d have taken that opportunity to clean up its’ odd ziggurat of stacked grilles and mismatched hood shut which they could’ve done by making the Adventure model’s face standard across the line, and adding a bit of redundancy to the single LED tail-brake light at each rear corner.
They are having quite enough problems with their rollout of new models elsewhere with quality issues. They cannot allow their prized vehicle to suffer the same issues, I imagine.
I liked the “Prime” name. Much better than boring-ass “Plug in Hybrid”.
Me too. I think they should have stuck with it. And what’s wrong with ‘RAV 4 Prime’?
Nothing wrong with enjoying a good steak…
Busy Forks…also Busy Spoons and Knives
Pointless since finding a prime for sale is like finding hens teeth anyway.
There are a bunch of RAV4s these days in my area. Even have modest discounts at some dealers. Prius, not happening.
I was able to get one in Boise, ID this month. I was able to test drive a different one at the same lot this summer. The dealer had previously been unable to get Primes, but it’s improved. I’m hoping the availability will continue to improve, since Toyota seems to have realized PHEVs are popular in most states.
(Had I gone to Oregon, I could have purchased one sooner and in my choice of color, but there were a number of factors that converged to get me to purchase locally.)
I had no problem finding used Prius Primes when I was shopping around for a newer car earlier this year. Of course you have to be willing to pay the premium for them.
They do things like this just to mess with us pedants over at IMCDb.
You’re all doing the Lord’s work over there.
Even as an owner of a Prius since 2006, I was unclear on what “Prime” meant until last year when we were shopping for a plug-in Rav4. This change is for the better.
I thought it was because Optimus Prime issued a cease and desist order.
If Kia had offered a PHEV Optima before renamed to the K5, it could have been called Optima Prime
Kia actually did offer an Optima PHEV! Not very many though; there are only 21 available on cars.com right now nationwide.
I find this interesting; for one, a company making its naming scheme more understandable is almost always justifiable and appreciated. But I seriously doubt that Toyota lost any sales due to the old naming scheme. Last I checked (which was admittedly last year), there was still a waiting list for the Rav4 Prime, even though every other new normal car did not have a waiting list. If you immediately sell all the Primes you make, and have a waiting list for the ones you will make, why is there a need for the change? Lastly, I am sad to see the name go because I thought “Prime” was a cool-sounding word, especially when paired with a model name. Ultimately, does this change anything in my life or anyone else’s? No, probably not.
“Prime” is a brand and brands cost money. Toyota introduced the crown brand and so now the crown is in and the prime is out.
It’s important for collectors to get the Prius before the Prime name.
Basically, a Pre-Prime Prius predates practical protocols of primitive preconceived printing of primacy.
Poetry perfection!
Preposterous!
/proceeds to play Primus*
.
*a much better name for the Prius Prime!
Yeah, when you start it up there needs to be some slap bass groove instead of beeping to remind you to fasten your seat belt.
My old gf still consults me about car stuff, and is casually looking for a used Prius Prime. I was shocked by the prices they command, did some napkin math, and told her that the payback for the Prime over plain Prius would almost certainly be longer than she would keep it.
Should have known better: she’s known she wanted one for awhile now, put herself in position to pay cash, and ain’t care. Ok, I said, but you gotta race me in the Roadster: I want to see how that Prime puppy goes. “Bet!”
-I kinda miss her
But… doesn’t your entire post basically show that she’ll get all that extra money back when she goes to sell?
She first mentioned it around the time articles here were talking about how used prices were definitely starting to come down. I advised waiting 6-8 months, but she said she’s trading in a Prius, so would get that benefit. When I mentioned the prime rate, she said she was adulting (our little joke) quite well & would pay cash. So I withdrew my objections
I’m morbidly curious how my Prius v would do in some kind of turning-heavy road/race/whatever against a Miata. Like, I know in my heart it’d get destroyed, but after driving an Econoline for so long it feels like it hugs corners so well.
Slap on some really nice tires first.
The weight—and what Steve said about tires—would be the killers. —In my admittedly limited experience. My parents’ gen2 and old gf’s 2010 both suffered from numb steering, pushing in corners, and tires that weren’t particularly communicative near the limits.
That said, I was fairly impressed with the 2010 on the Blue Ridge Parkway after only previously experiencing the gen2.
*I’m not hating on them at all: they’re great at getting you where you need to go for many years & miles. I just wouldn’t choose one to carve corners with
I have a strong memory of feeling like my left tires were starting to leave the ground in my old van while taking a highway on-ramp at 40 instead of my usual 35. Never felt that sensation before or since, and like I said…I’m sure it’s relative.
I do hope to drive or maybe have a Miata someday, but I haven’t yet prioritized that over getting a conversion van again.
Having driven various work trucks & vans for most of a decade, I very much feel you. Even my old awd automatic Previa felt kinda spritely compared to an 8500lb van.
Put a Miata pic up at your desk and stuff $20-40 in a sock each week: you’ll get there if the want is strong enough. I say it all the time: life is short, so we best enjoy the ride 😉
Will the Miata win? Yes obviously, but Priuses since the 3rd gen do have a nice low center of gravity and the ability to dump the battery into acceleration that, with the right tires, is better than I would have expected.
One thing to keep in mind: leasing can save you money. I just got a RAV4 Prime, then turned around and bought out the lease. It didn’t save me the full $6500 they took off, but it still came awfully close to a similarly-equipped regular hybrid pricewise.
If you make full use of the plug in capability and also drive a lot, paying extra for the Prime can make sense.
In my case, I was seriously looking at a Prius Prime, but then I came across a great deal on a C-Max Energi, which is almost as efficient plus has faster acceleration, and ended up buying that.
So far my fuel economy is averaging 2.83L/100km (83mpg using US gallons) and it’s saving me about CAD$150/month in fuel.
And if the C-Max lasts me for 10 years (and it likely will as I bought it with only 100,000km on it and it’s in mint condition), I will have essentially saved $18,000 in fuel… which is what the C-Max cost me to buy.
In the case of the Toyota, you may pay more to buy it, but it will hold its value. That doesn’t matter much to me as I typically keep my cars until they’re in ‘decrepit’/rusted out condition.
But if she only wants to keep it for a few years, that’ll be okay because she’ll be able to sell it for a higher price than the typical Ford or Chevy.
on good thing that toyota did with the Prius prime is they gave it a significant horsepower boost. so there is more factors to consider besides efficiency. so now the prime is not just the fuel miser it’s also the “better” prius. I still wish toyota would put the 300+ horsepower rav4 prime drivetrain in the prius that would be an absolute riot!
Except Toyota also puts an incredibly similar HEV logo on the back of their regular hybrids…
Do I still get free shipping???
Under rated comment right there, well played sir!
Eh, props to Toyota for this one. Less “sexy” name but the clarity is appreciated.
Now they just need to ditch
priapismPrius.Yes, the Clarity is appreciated. Honda should start making those again.
Damn, I just got ratio’d on the Autopian
Thank you for that Insight.
No thanks necessary. He did it of his own Accord.
Just performing his Civic duty as a Prelude to even better things, I suppose.
So, the non-PHEV will be called “Sub-Prime”?
It was giving the F&I guys convulsions when writing 8 year contracts.
Thought that was the popular trim level on the Nissan Altima with the dealer-installed tree air freshener, >1 donut spare and peeling window tint.
I am unreasonably bothered by the line where the black roof ends and the body color begins on the rear pillar of the RAV4.
It doesn’t line up with the seam on the wing at the top of the hatchback or with the line.
There’s likely a structural reason, but visually it looks disjointed to me.
I think you’re reasonably bothered. It looks like it’s trying to drop off in a pseudo-fastback-SUV-coupe (ugh) sort of way – like a Lexus LX that wants to be a fugly X6. LX6?
Eventually, the plastic cladding will rise from the wheel arches and sag (by design) to the beltline and the entire vehicle will be plastic clad.
From the company that brought you BZ4X and the “86”(which has neither an 8 or 6 cylinder, and looks nothing like 1986), comes reflection on bad naming….
it originally had an 86mmx86mm bore and stroke.
I’m glad there’s an explanation for it, but at the same time, damn, Toyota really just throws out boring names left and right…
Gr86 is Toyota’s version of an Elon Musk vehicle naming joke.
You know, I never even thought of reading it that way until now.
Thanks for cursing me with this idea.
*Le Car has entered the chat*
Oh, there’s boring names to be found all over the place, no argument there.
I just think, on average, Toyota’s names are the most boring or lackluster.
(Opposite end: Ford, who only have occasional misses….solely in the context of names.)
Ferrari LaFerrari
Ah, the Boaty McBoatface of the automotive world.
That’s a cool reference, but especially with what Hyundai’s doing they could style it a little more like an 86 Supra, it’s got similar structure so wouldn’t be too hard.
I would love to see that. I’m honestly just happy there’s an accessible RWD coupe out there to be the hardtop competitor to the Miata.
“Now if only we could come up with something snappier than bZ4X and get Mercedes to stop calling a car with a two-liter four-cylinder engine a C63, that would be great.”
If you have any influence at all with the committee for emblem honesty could you have a word about Porsche and the use of “turbo”. They stick the badge on cars that don’t have them and leave it off cars that do.
What do you mean bZ4X is a bad name? beyondZero, size class 4, suv/crossover thing = X makes perfect sense. /s
I’m not really in a position to criticise the naming of anything given the name I chose for myself.
I need every automaker to start Oprah’ing PHEVs and EREVs.
YOU get an acceptable compromise! AND YOU get an acceptable compromise!
Now if we can only get these plug in hybrid’s to stop hogging level 2 chargers at work, I’ll be happy. These things should only plug on level one.
They are what is wrong with EVs.
We do 9 hour shifts at work and have 8-10 ev charge spots per site, and every day at least 6 are used by plug in hybrids. When they can easily charge on level 1.
I don’t disagree but do you also have level 1 chargers available?
That’s a company policy problem, not a PHEV problem.
“They are what is wrong with EVs”
That’s, uh, kind of a strong take
a slightly unhinged take
A fully unhinged take. That’s not at all what’s wrong with EVs.
We are only allowed to charge 4 hours to allow other people plug their vehicles. Basically at lunch time you should unplug and move your car out of that spot. 4 hours at 32A is enough to recover what you used to drive to work.
Sounds like a reasonable policy to get double the value out of your charger installation costs.
Your work should change the policy to start charging by time after a few hours. Where I work after the first 4 hours (of charging per kWh), they start charging $5 an hour. It helps encourage people to rotate out as soon as they’re done charging.
Also, PHEVs typically need to charge every day, to run on EV, while EV’s can often skip a day. It does depend a lot on each person’s commute of course, and EV’s don’t have a backup fuel source.
Interestingly, there was a recent discussion at my workplace, and there were strong proponents of giving lower battery capacities (largely PHEVs, but we do have some Fiats and such with small batteries) higher priority because that would keep them able to get home on electric, some who said we should prioritize EVs because it’s the only source of motive power, and the majority just pushing for people to respect the allotted time and remove their vehicle when charged or once the time expired.
I am firmly in the last camp. The easiest way to ensure fair access is for everyone to move their vehicles when their vehicle is charged or the time elapsed. Idle fees or other enforcement measures can help with that, and simply having a policy would at least remind people that it’s common courtesy.
(For the record, I do not usually charge my PHEV at work. It’s too much effort to go out and repark in our crowded lot after I’m charged up. When I sometimes worked nights, I did charge, since the lots were pretty empty.)
I’m not aware of ANY PHEVs that are capable of recharging on L1 an 8-hour work day. Most can’t even in 10.
But many might not show up at 0% SOC making it reasonable to get back to 100% in 8 hrs or less on level 1.
I guess that depends on the location in question and what the employees’ commutes look like. A quick scan of Car and Drivers’s PHEV list shows a lot of sub-25-mile ranges, and only one (barely) over 40. These are EPA range miles, so for real world commutes I’m thinking it’s more like sub-19-mile… In summer. I guess some commutes are that short but if mine were, I wouldn’t have that much fuel consumption to offset.
No more free shipping, either 😛
Also, fuck them for killing the Prius V.
As a Prius v owner, I’m curious to go in detail on this further.
Since being introduced in the US, there are roughly 1.75 million Prii on the road.
But only 148,000 v’s were sold here cumulatively. Someone told me they were priced way higher than a regular one, for example, which put them up against different competitors.
Regardless, with the gen 3 issues, I’m still a ball of anxiety about mine at times, even if it’s been good to me so far.
The Prius V was way more expensive, and offered only a little more floor space than a regular Prius, while being rated for lower economy. It has a lot more cubic feet, but not much difference in floor space.
The closest I got to buying a Prius was when the dealership called to tell me they finally had a Prius in stock, and when I went, the one in stock was the Prius V.
I wanted the regular, but they were sold out, and I wasn’t willing to pay a large premium for something that for my uses, was a significantly worse value for money.
Yeah…brand new, I can understand that being a harder pill to swallow.
Dealing with used prices, the mpg hit is small enough that I’m happy for the extra space.
Plus, when I was test driving, the regular gen 3 Prius headrests were like a rock.
The Prius v’s….was a softer rock.
Yeah, for the time they were pricey, upper 20k range which was where a more nicely-equipped and more powerful RAV4 was priced. Not that they were necessarily compared, but it didn’t seem like getting more.
Compared among eco options, diesels were having a moment and general sentiment around hybrids still carried a lot of talk on the ROI for the price premium. VW’s TDIs promised all the economy or more, in a conventional package, without the emissions hit compared to a gasser. Or so it seemed!
The initial RAV4 Hybrid was a mileage hit vs. the v, but it was a lot more powerful too and more natural a transition for the average driver, more familiar. The current one is much closer, and I don’t think a present-day v would be appreciably better at least to justify an entirely separate model line.
Yeah. I’ve heard the Venza is the closest thing in terms of interior to the v, but…wow, the pre-hybrid Venzas do not get good fuel economy.
and with the blind spots of an even more bloated vehicle!
former older Venza owner here. the gas mileage was terrible. sold mine after barely a year.
Adding to that confusion were the trim names for the Prius line, which were numbers (spelled out). So there was a Prius Five, and a Prius v Five.
That doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that, for the 2010 model year only (remember Prius v’s only started for 2012 model year), the regular Prius trim levels were one through five….as Roman numerals.
So a Prius V is a 2010 Prius’s top trim.
A Prius v (for versatile, Toyota says) is the big-assed wagon model.
Yeah, that’s a clearer way of putting what I was getting at. Seeing “Prius V” on a website or inventory listing could be interpreted differently if you didn’t keep up with the changes one year to the next. Which the average person obviously doesn’t. And if you’re dealer personnel that actually does pay close attention, you have to unlearn the way they initially did it on the regular Prius trims with the Roman numerals.
I test drove a Prius V earlier this year while helping a family member shop for a vehicle. On paper, perfect for her needs. In reality it just drove like a turd, and all the examples for sale had 180,000 miles and needed the expensive brake stroke simulator replaced. Ended up paying much less money for a much newer, much lower mileage Cruze hatch (the extra cargo space was not an absolute necessity)
Damn, I’m offended by your analogy. How would/did you define driving like a turd?
More curiosity than anything else, mind you. I love the smoothness of the eCVT and while you won’t catch me complimenting the engine sound, it gets me from A to B just fine.
I concede I came from a 4-speed auto Econoline with a 4.6l and thus cut about ~1 second from my 0-60 time, and the Prius v had hugely better handling…but perhaps this vehicle history means I’m not allowed to comment on vehicle handling, ha.
I do get your point about the brake accumulator or whatever the hell it is. I’ve heard that and some other things are like “oh, you have 15 seconds after this breaks to stop the car or everything dies“. So I’m glad I did my research before buying it! And I’m only at 155,000 miles…
Me to myself: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer…
The combination of roomy and fuel economy is unmatched in my eyes, though. Second row has fantastic legroom, still a good hatch area size, and I hit the EPA 44/40 mpg regularly in warmer months.
Not meant particularly offensively… “Turd” is just an expression I’ve heard on a semi-regular basis to describe a car or especially an engine as a combination of heavy, underpowered, and unresponsive long and often enough that I consider it kind of old-fashioned. Like ‘boat’. Like a lot of idiomatic expressions, I’m not sure it really makes sense.
As I understand it, the brake stoke simulator is what stands in for a master cylinder in Toyota’s hybrid systems (or used to), but it might be in addition to the master. Complex system that allows your foot to move and feel feedback from the brake pedal, but your brakes to stay still so regen can do it’s thing, but only until regen can’t do it’s thing, all without compromising mechanical fail-safe operation.