Great news for van lovers! Rivian has broken free from its exclusivity agreement with Amazon and will soon sell its electric delivery vans to fleet customers across America. Deliveries are expected to start in 2024, which isn’t particularly far away.
While sales will only open to business customers at first, don’t be surprised if you start seeing more of these vans without Amazon branding on the streets of America. After all, urban delivery is an ideal use case for electric vehicles, as it involves a ton of stopping and starting through fairly quiet neighborhoods, and relatively short routes.
Opening up the Rivian van lineup is the Delivery 500 at a starting price of $83,000. Admittedly, that’s a lot of money, especially considering that Rivian’s R1S SUV starts at $78,000, and Ford’s E-Transit starts at $53,790. However, the Rivian Delivery 500 is a whole lot taller than an E-Transit, measuring in at a whopping 114.7 inches from the roof to the ground. When it comes to moving packages, height matters.
As a result of massive height and solid packaging, the Rivian Delivery 500 sports 487 cu.-ft. of cargo space, 75 more than GM’s incoming short-wheelbase BrightDrop Zevo 400, all in a package with a GVWR that slips neatly beneath the 10,000-pound threshold requiring additional licensing in certain jurisdictions. The Rivian Delivery 500 also sports a 2,734-pound payload capacity, a whopping 1,274 pounds more than you get in a BrightDrop Zevo 400 with a sub-10k GVWR. Mind you, it’s possibly to spec the short-wheelbase BrightDrop with an 11,000-pound GVWR, in which case its payload capacity increases to a more competitive 2,450 pounds.
As for what lies beneath the Rivian Delivery 500’s boxy body, David Tracy has done an excellent job geeking out over this thing’s composite leaf spring front suspension and aero shielding, but in case you can’t read that article right now, here are the absolute basics that you need to know. The Delivery 500 is front-wheel-drive thanks to a single electric motor on the front axle. Rivian hasn’t specified how powerful the motor is or how massive the battery pack is, but the firm does tout a 161-mile range. While that should be good enough for city use, hopping from suburb to suburb might require more juice.
Alright, so what if something huge isn’t big enough for your needs? What if you need to jump right up to something ginormous? Well, there’s also the Rivian Delivery 700, starting at $87,000. It’s 29.5 inches longer than the already 20-foot-8.5-inch-long Delivery 500, resulting in more than 23 feet of electric delivery van and some serious additional cargo space.
Compared to the Delivery 500, payload capacity shrinks to 2,513 pounds despite a 150-pound GVWR increase, but cargo volume is up 165 cubic feet to to 652 cubic feet. Against GM’s BrightDrop Zevo 600 equipped with a comparable sub-10,000-pound GVWR, we’re talking about an extra 713 pounds of payload capacity and 37 cu.-ft. of cargo space, but those gains come at a cost.
See, the Rivian Delivery 700 is really geared for last-mile delivery, where frequent urban stops hopping from mailbox to mailbox result in shorter routes. As a result, Rivian claims just 153 miles of range from its long wheelbase delivery van. However, the BrightDrop Zevo 600 boasts 250 miles of range, a substantially more practical figure that should even the tables tilted by the Rivian’s superior base payload capacity. Oh, and if you have a CDL isn’t a problem, that BrightDrop can be ordered with an 11,000-pound GVWR, bumping payload capacity up to 2,800 pounds.
With plenty of payload, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rivian’s electric delivery vans catch on with the RV market. After all, cramming a kitchen, a dinette, a bed or two, water tanks, a shower, passengers, and their belongings into something with a 2,734-pound payload capacity isn’t the hardest task in the world. However, with the range of an electric city car, these aren’t the best platforms for road-tripping. In any case, we’re excited to see another electric van on the market, even if it’s only being opened up to fleet sales to start.
(Photo credits: Rivian)
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I’m writing a spec for electric heavy trucks and vans for my employer, and I think these vans and the BrightDrop vans wold work well for things like road service trucks. We already have a bunch of e-Transits and these will fill a useful spot.
When Amazon reduced the total number of EV vans it said that it would buy from Rivian, I wondered aloud whether that might mean that Rivian would now be able to build them for other buyers, since the original deal had them making them for Amazon exclusively. While I’m happy that has come to pass since I’m a big fan of the Amazon/Rivian and Brightdrop EV vans, pricing it higher even than a Rivian R1S means that the only buyers who would be able to justify the purchase will be commercial. 🙁
They do have a freakishly long wheelbase though. I wonder what they’re like trying to turn around, or do you have smart cars acting as tugs?
Ok but passenger van when
I got no use for a cargo van, but still encouraging. We need more EV vans in general.
Wake me in 15 years when I might be able to afford a used, conversion E-Transit (or similar) with 6 captain’s chairs and a bench seat that folds into a bed.
Yet to see one in person as we’re rural and no way they could make it from nearest city to our town, granted we get no Sunday delivery etc. EV won’t be practical in our area in a very long time if ever I’ve had three customers buy Tesla’s, they’ve all sold not long after as there’s no infrastructure and most people in town have to drive 30-45 mins to work minimum to factory jobs.
I used to drive the Amazon van for a bit during the pandemic. Amazon built and opened a brand new distribution center in LaVergne TN in 2021. Ground up built to Amazon’s specs. Not a single electric car charger or any provisions for one at this new facility. Also our routes were out in the middle of nowhere, it was usually a 45 min to hour drive before your 1st stop. 120 to 140 miles a day(ive done 200 miles a few times) That would really be pushing the range limit on these Rivian vans, cause Im assuming that on a cold day with a fully loaded van the range is going to drop by 1/3rd.
I quit before they rolled out the Rivian(doubt if my dc got any) but did see the prototype. Its set up like a step van that ups and fedex use except the steering wheel is on the left and the sliding door/steps is on the right up by the driver where the passenger seat would go.
Would be a niche product unless they also sold a version with two front seats, two front hinged doors and a sliding door further back.
And like somebody else said, the service/support is going to be key to fleet adoption. A chevy van or Transit you can get serviced anywhere or have your mechanics work on them.
We had god awful diesel Mercedes Sprinter vans at Amazon when I worked there. They were always breaking down, but it seemed like it was always new and creative ways, they didnt all have the same failures except the seatbelt buckles. Only place to get them serviced was at the Mercedes car dealership 20 miles away because they were under warranty. They would be there for a week, occasinally two because first you had to wait for an open service bay for a few days. Then the parts had to be shipped in from Germany, so more down time. It was ridiculous, we had a fleet of about 40 vans and if we had 30 of them running we were doing pretty good. Luckily Amazon started taking back some of the Sprinters and gave us Transits. Never had a lick of problems with them. Just change the oil and put brakes/tires on them around 30k miles.
An even better, non-delivery, use case (than an RV) would be as a food truck. Obviously, the (high!) purchase price is the biggest hurdle.
I drove behind one two days ago, the first time I ever saw one in real life. Amazon livery.
All I know is that the Escalade’s record for longest taillights no longer stands. This thing’s taillights are about 18 linear feet. An arch that goes the height and the width of the vehicle. It was quite distracting driving behind it at night, it looked like not a vehicle but the entrance to something.
Already weird on a well lit NYC expressway, but it can be downright confusing on a dark road.
Was there, here, someone, who had a thing for weird taillights ? I don’t know, I don’t know 😛
Starting to sound like trades people and other contractors who are looking towards the day when there’s an EV van capable of doing those kinds of work should start thinking about a CDL. The Brightdrop sounds like it’s headed in the right direction and it’s difficult to see another path that stays under 10k pounds with current battery technology. Although I think the limit is 26k pounds in my state. And if I called it a farm vehicle or an RV I still wouldn’t need a CDL. Where is the limit 10k?
I was in the delivery business for over a decade. We measured cargo space by the cargo area not including the cab and engine. I was limited at 12,500 lbs but the 16 foot box was plenty of room. I doubt anything measured by entire length and less than tons with dimensions in inches is big enough to handle product delivery for grocery stores is a viable market. And this is a bigger market than Amazon.
straight out of start trek- they look great in grey with the LED taillights that go all the way around the back like an impulse engine…. They are everywhere here in Houston where Amazon has a huge warehouse every 10 miles…
I see lots of these driving around here in Seattle. I do like how they look. Wonder what the Amazon drivers think of them now that they’ve got some miles behind the wheel.
The drivers I’ve spoken to like them . . .
I sincerely hope USPS buys a bunch of these instead of those horrendous Pixar vans with the 1970s fuel economy
Yeah, but the problem is that Oshkosh is a defense contractor and Rivian isn’t.
What you got against the Duck Truck?
The fuel economy isn’t the EPA test cycle. It’s a duty/test cycle specific to the USPS requirements. So claiming it has ’70s fuel economy is ridiculous.
The EPA itself called them out, saying they’ll get as low as 8.6mpg
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/the-epa-and-white-house-take-fire-at-inefficient-new-mail-trucks/
Right from the EPA themselves:
https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/cb839d93-acf3-4390-8106-508a98e25b48/note/2b41bc0f-ccdb-4107-b59c-afdbd475640c.#page=1
The USPS does not use the EPA’s test cycle; they use their own.
Fine, even allowing for different test cycles, that’s absolute garbage economy, especially for vehicles that aren’t going highways speeds, most of their lives they’re stopped and turned or off idling between mailboxes. Even my CRZ gets mid 20s idling through stop and go traffic.
What’s your CRZ get after running for 8 hours and traveling only 50 miles total?
Probably similar if not better. When they designed it 10 years ago, Honda gave it auto stop start so it doesn’t use any fuel when stopped. It might restart itself to run the A/C compressor for a few minutes, but otherwise it’s likely going to be better sitting still than idling constantly through heavy traffic. Even driving short distances at low speeds can largely be handled by the electric motor alone.
To my point, Oshkosh could have also used now-mature mature hybrid tech with similar capabilities and at least gotten up to double digit MPG. If they were just borrowing an EcoBoost from Ford, they could just as well borrowed some brand’s hybrid setup, as most of the other NGDV candidate vehicles did during the initial bidding phase.
LOL, bologna. You’re a buffoon; you’ve got no idea, you are adamant on your ideas when you didn’t even know the testing standards. You’ve been told things that directly contradict some of your ideals, and yet you don’t waiver a bit.
The idea you think your CRZ would get mid 20 mpg with super long periods of idling, traveling only 50 miles over 8 hours, with AC blasting, is hilarious. That scenario is so much more severe than a bit of stop and go traffic for 20 min.
Again, a hybrid like that uses zero gas when stopped for more than a few seconds, so yeah, I’m certain it would definitely get better than the NGDV.
IDK where you got the idea of only 20 minutes of traffic, I’m seeing those mpg numbers in better part of an hour of stop and go traffic, when the engine doesn’t get to turn off as often.
This white windowless van is the answer to sustainable serial killing.
Imagine all the free candy that can fit insde!
Wait. So there actually *is* free candy?! I’ve been lied to!
I’ve seen these regularly the past few months around me. They venture 25 miles or so from the distribution center so range must not be too big a deal. Haven’t seen any broken ones yet but have seen broken ProMasters many a time.
But do they go “BZZT-bzzt-bzzt-bzzt” in reverse like the Amazon ones do?
yes!
Technology Connections just did an interesting piece on this. Apparently the brain is more able to quickly localize the direction of that noise than a BEEP BEEP BEEP.
Having not too long ago had a really bad week* until I realized an old smoke detector left over from the previous tenant was intermittently putting out a week beep-beep-beep from deep in storage in the laundry room, I can attest to beeps not being readily directional!
*Like seriously disturbed sleep/waking up in the kitchen/horrible dreams/thinking I was loosing what little mind I have left. And, when I finally realized it was real, it still took almost 1/2 hour to find.
I grew up changing the batteries when the clocks change, so never had that happen before
I wonder how hard it would be to give these an ICE range extender for RV use. With all that cubic footage, seems like you could fit some kind of doghouse without compromising living space too much. I guess it depends on the packaging of the electric powertrain underneath. But imagine the fuel savings over a conventional RV.
Just tow a diesel powered gen set. Saw some decent looking mil surplus 10kW for 6 grand.
Which could be run on biodiesel + some anti-freeze additives in below zero weather
I’m hoping for a return of the solid-oxide fuel cell as a range extender.
They were testing them for automotive use a few decades ago, but without a big battery pack to buffer things, the fuel cells had to start up and then be able to ramp up and down just as fast and efficiently as a gasoline engine.
The bigger challenge is copilot seating. These are driver-focused vehicles, with just a jump seat for a Christmas season helper. The other challenge will likely be with plumbing and tanks since the below-floor real estate is already (presumably) occupied with batteries.
Amazon runs their own delivery vehicles? Here in Toronto I’ve never seen anything but a subcontractor – usually in a Ford Transit.
I see them in Houston Texas all the time – I actually really dig the rear taillights on these things
Amazon is the main reason Rivian is still in business.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-rivian-prime-delivery-van-first-look-review/
Now all they need to do is offer a passenger version 😀
Does that require a whole bunch of crash testing and certification?
lol idk
maybe just tracks and windows, if Rivian doesn’t install the seats from the factory…
Overall, these are really a good design. The higher GVWR variants were always on their roadmap, but haven’t come to fruition. They might not need to exist though, since most of these delivery vans “cube out” on cu ft. WAY before they max out on payload. Since most Amazon boxes contain air.
Higher GVWR variants will likely be from another Class 6 EV (or maybe FCEV) OEM.
Disclaimer: The following comment is based on extremely anecdotal evidence.
Much of the Amazon fleet where I live is Rivians now. It seems a surprisingly disproportional number end up breaking down. Not saying the majority, but in the past year I’ve probably seen 10 or 12 being hauled off on flatbed or sitting on the side of the road, which is a huge amount considering I’ve seen exactly 0 UPS, Fedex, or non-EV Amazon units broke down.
Has there been any coverage on known issues with them?
Interesting observation. I’ve only ever seen one in person and it was stopped on the side of the highway…but with a flat tire, which could happen to any car. I am curious if there’s any particular issues that these vans are susceptible to, or if it’s something logistical. Like a van not getting fully charged before its route or under estimation of how long/demanding the route is (or load weight) resulting in a dead battery.
The vans are charged every night right after a driver shift so dead battery shouldn’t happen.
Another anecdote (although not related to reliability) that I’m curious if other people have heard anything about: I chatted with an Amazon delivery driver the first time one of these stopped by our house this past summer. She said that she and the other drivers she knew hated them. She didn’t get into specifics, but said that “everything” was a pain to do relative to their ICE vans, and everyone’s routes were taking longer.
I’m not sure if that has to do with glitchy electronics, getting used to driving an EV, or ergonomic issues, but she was very quick to say she hated getting assigned one.
Counterpoint to the drivers I talked to…. interesting
Same, my Amazon people love them. Although they are longer than the old van and last week I saw one do an 8pt turn in my neighborhood, would of been easier and quicker to loop around as they are not as maneuverable.
I’m guessing I may have just hit them at the very start of their rollout in our area. The drivers have probably gotten more comfortable with things by now.
Interesting – we’re also in a Rivian-Van Amazon zone, and we’re heavy Prime users. I’ve been seeing them for more than a year now and I’ve talked to at least four drivers to ask how they like them…which so far seems to be “quite a lot”. Having said that they don’t seem to be a substantial portion of the delivery fleet even after a year. Further, although I haven’t seen any broken down, I’m retired and half the city could burn down and I’d never know.
The Amazon/ mail delivery route in a van seems to be an ideal situation for EV’s to me. Short routes with a bulky but light payload and tons of stops during each trip. I have no idea what the distance traveled in a day for an Amazon driver (does anyone here know?), but I would speculate that a 200 mile range would be more than plenty. Further a flat floor van gives plenty of space for a big, however big you need, battery.
I used to do seasonal Personal Vehicle Delivery for Amazon. I wanted to use my Chevy Bolt, but they would occasionally send me on a 100+ mile trip (round trip)which, in winter and on the highway, my Bolt wouldn’t be able to do. That said, the vast majority of routes, I’d run 50-60 miles so these would be fine for that
We have had them in our neighborhood for about 6 months now. I have asked several drivers how they like them with 100% positive answers. I have never seen one broken down.
probably ran out of fuel …
So when these first came out, I thought it was rather odd that it uses single rear wheels and that the rear axle is so far back for a vehicle if this size.
Now that we know the GVWR, I’m extra surprised and I want to know what kind of tires they’re using, because this is f450 kind of load and this has more weight on the front axle than an f450.
Any load rating E or F light truck tire should handle these GVWRs without issue. Heck, a lot of the Fs are pushing 4000lbs per tire, so that plenty of spare capacity for them to make an even larger model.
This is interesting for three reasons.
The first is Rivian now has a customer for these things other than Amazon. Amazon is still buying them, but this opens up to a broader market. More units out the door, and lower costs as a function of increased sales volume.
The second is Rivian now can get a lot of input from other potential customers on what it would take to get them to buy some van from Rivian. Not necessarily what’s available this instant, but what could be done to better accommodate their use cases better.
Last, very large fleet customers are also going to be interested in taking care of their vehicles on their own as much as possible for a myriad of reasons. Training fleet techs is a hurdle in itself, but it could help to make these increasingly more serviceable over time if fleet garages and fleet managers can properly service these mostly on their own and not rely on Rivian’s comparatively small support infrastructure. This ultimately helps take some load off of Rivian as they move into this sector, and again gives a lot more feedback to help improve serviceability and lower TCO.
This is potentially very good for Rivian. I hope they take advantage of the opportunity.
In general, any EV should be easier for techs to maintain since the more complicated ICE and multi-gear transmission are eliminated. Yes, the software tech is the big unknown, but OTA updates should negate most of those concerns. That just leaves tires, brakes, and the inevitable body damage, which Rivian seems to have addressed with relatively simple modular parts and panels.
Despite having a large Amazon distribution center in my home city, Amazon only uses Ram Promasters and Ford Transits for delivery here. However, I was on a business trip and finally saw one of these Rivians up close outside of my hotel. I was surprised how low the rear load floor is, not to mention how tall the roof is, and overall they seemed like they had the capacity of a UPS truck in a smaller, tuxedo-like package.
Ironically enough, when I flew home, I saw an Amazon truck leaving the Amazon DC (which is near the airport), and it was a retired UPS truck hastily painted in Amazon livery – you could still see the UPS logo through the paint!
Yeah not sure why they are rolling them out only in certain cities.
We have them here. One of them delivers to our house quite regularly.
Oh yeah, I’ve never seen one here in Idaho but the salt lake/Provo area is overflowing with Rivians.
Maybe it’s just to simplify fleet maintenance and management, so they don’t have one fleet with both gas and electric vans?
I think it mostly has to do with where electricity is cheaper, here in Utah 14c kWh, all I see is these now. Other factors are majority of routes close to the distribution centers, I have major ones 15 miles south and north.
That would make sense except my electricity here in Idaho is 9c/kWh.
Isn’t 14 like national average?
Yeah, but you have longer routes. DK what the national average is but the most people prolly pay 3-4x that, Northeast, Cali, Florida, etc have rates that would make you cry compared to your 9c.
28c/kWh is our BASE residential EV rate. And PG&E is looking to jack it up even more for *reasons*.
(Surprised face looking at my electric bill with 7 cents/kw)
7? A quick Google seems to think that nowhere in the US is below 10c lately. Where are you?
I need to check mine again too, my rate was 9 last time I checked but the interwebs says is should be more like 11
if you are like us in TX, you lock in prices with contracts, mine total with delivery is .9 for the next year or so on a 2 year contract. You now may not be able to renew for under 11 so both things could be true- and large companies can negotiate their rates with various providers. .5kwh for power, .4 for delivery.
It’s to do with the way distribution centers are built, and if they don’t have a parking lot structured in a way that allows charging to happen easily, then it’s a pain. There are so many DC’s where Amazon vans are parked nose to tail that it’s impossible to make charging happen. There is a solution coming for those scenarios, but it takes time to implement and Amazon isn’t happy to spend money with the economic mess we are in.
Especially for large fleet operations I have to imagine Wireless charging parking spots have to become the norm at come point. Saves time (no more driver getting in/out to “hook up” or “unhook” the charger, simply press the button on the comtrol screen to confirm charging (or default condition is the vehicle starts charging automatically & ther is a pop up notice in case you parked over a charging pad and you Dont want to charge for some reason..
And this (should) reduce the expenses of charger heads? Leads? Getting dropped / run over / otherwise mangled…
Plus overall efficiency difference charging via charging port vs wireless via charging pad is only a few % difference
Wireless charging on EVs simply isn’t possible because of the amount of heat that is produced. Not only is it slower than cabled charging but it’s also extremely finnicky to align correct as well as well. We don’t have an EV charging standard(Lumen Freedom doesn’t have it either) yet which complicates things even further. Imagine you have some mud on the bottom of a van and suddenly it won’t charge because it’s blocking the charge coils. Lets not even talk about the cost of the charge pad itself… The easier solution might be longer cables that can avoid voltage drops.
88-93% efficiency charging wireless sounds likely to be good enough for fleet duty, of course I’m not a fleet vehicle mgr…
https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/what-is-efficiency-how-do-you-measure-it-and-why-should-you-care/
They don’t say if it’s peak or average efficiency which is suspect. Again, it still doesn’t solve any of the issues I brought up and the fact they have a proprietary standard does not help either.
I fully expect each (private enterprise for profit) company making Wireless chargers will make some effort to create propriety something w/in their solution as an attempt to create a differentiating product.
Toward your other two concerns…. 1) difficulty aligning a vehicle to.the charging pad and 2) additional resistance from mud…
I haven’t heard of either of these concerns from product testing. That’s not to say these aren’t legit opportunities…
For the 1st opportunity, this could be addressed by added charging coils in both the charging pad (in the ground (or bolted to the ground) as.well.as.w/in the receiver mounted to the underside of the vehicle
For the 2nd opportunity I would expect excessive mud on the bottom of vehicles to be a niech situation, certainly could be applicable to vehicles that frequent construction sites during rainy season or possibly winter. That said, this too could be addressed by an inexpensive wash facility. Fleet operators are incentivised to keep their vehicles clean not only for astetics and brand, but also to increase the service life of the vehicle.
We have a bunch running around St Louis (not far from the Rivian plant) including a few with expired Illinois temp tags (so they fit right in 😉 ).