Feeling a little spicy, a little argumentative? Spoiling for a bit of a fight to break that mid-week monotony? Then, buddy, are you in luck, because you’re currently reading the latest installment of the Autopian’s most combative series, Prove Me Wrong! We’ve covered BMW Bangle designs and James Garner v. Steve McQueen and Sedans v. Wagons before, and now we’re going to tackle something that I feel strongly about: power. Well, really, probably lack of power. Because I honestly believe that you can get by just fine, even in our modern world of laser hats and cellular HAM radios, with just 50 horsepower.
I know this to be true because I’ve done it, for decades, even, in a variety of cities across America. I lived in Los Angeles for almost 20 years, a city full of highways and freeways and overpasses and interchanges and hills and assholes, and my primary daily driver for that whole time was a 50 hp 1973 VW Beetle.
More recently my daily driver for the past few years has been my 1990 Nissan Pao, and that car’s little 987cc engine only makes 52 hp, and, again, I get by just fine.
I don’t avoid any driving situations, either: I merge onto highways with no problem, I can hold 70 to 75 mph for long highway trips, I can break speed limits in probably 75% of my normal driving situations (especially around schools), and I’ve never once been late or had to avoid going somewhere because my car has about a quarter the horsepower of the average car on the road today.
It’s simply a non-issue.
I’m not saying more horsepower isn’t fun – of course it’s fun, that’s why I have my monster Yugo GV Plus, which makes a face-melting 67 hp around! I get the appeal of speed, but I also get the appeal of feeling like your going fast, but in reality you’re just not.
But, that’s a slightly different point – right now I’m just talking about practical concerns, and less about fun. I’m just saying that I personally have driven cars with about 50 horsepower, and I have yet to have that ever be a limiting factor in what I can do or where I can go. Well, I mean, not counting, say, towing a camper full of marble statues. I mean in normal, day-to-day use.
Now, I can already hear some of you: Jay-jay, you’re screaming, stop being an idiot! Those cars you’re talking about weigh, what, 1600 pounds?
Damn, disembodied voice, you’re pretty dead on! Both the Beetle and the Pao clock in right around 1600 pounds or so, and I get that if you want, say, a more modern car with actual safety features besides floormats that will hold your expelled organs without spillage, then sure, what I drive isn’t for you.
So, with that in mind, let’s look at the power-to-weight ratio of the Pao, which is about 30 pounds per horsepower. If we say that a modern car with safety features needs to be at least 3,000 pounds, then I think we can say the equivalent yes-you-can-get-by-just-fine horsepower number is 100 hp.
A 3,500 pound car would need 116 hp, a 4,000 pound car wants 133 hp, and so on. These are still tiny power numbers by modern standards, and yet I still maintain that you can get by just fine.
Maybe that’s the metric I should use: if you have a car that makes at least one horsepower per 30 pounds, I know, empirically, that you can get by just fine in almost any normal traffic situation out there. Will you be able to pass everyone? No. Will you sometimes need to merge or change lanes by ducking behind someone instead of darting out in front? Yes.
But will you be able to merge onto a modern highway? Absolutely. Will you get where you need to go in roughly the same amount of time as anyone else in higher-horsepower cars? Damn right you will.
Again, I’m not saying that power is bad or not fun, because duh. What I am saying is that anyone who thinks they need 300 hp to comfortably merge onto a highway is deluding themselves. Get a car with more power because you want it, but I’m not buying that you need it.
Plus, look at the world outside of America; a VW Up!, a very modern car by any estimation, makes 60 horsepower and is right about 2,000 pounds, which is about 33 pounds per horsepower. But an Up! is admittedly pretty small. A Skoda Fabia is a bigger car, and you can get those with as little as 65 hp, and weighs about 2,568 pounds, which is 39 pounds per hp, and people manage to get by with that. It’s not just me!
Again, I know all this because I live that 50 hp life, and I’m a happy man who can merge onto highways, drive legally on any road in America, and get where I need to go.
So there.
Kinda get the sense your preaching to the choir on this one, Torch.
I’m intrigued by how the demise of the manual transmission may figure into this.
Back in the day (like the 2000s…), it was still possible to get a fair amount of identical everyday vehicles with your choice of either a manual or an automatic.
And to me at least, I was often amazed the difference a manual made in the driving dynamics of otherwise identical cars with respect to things like real-world acceleration tests (i.e. merging).
Sure, auto quality was notably poor, but it many cars now, it’s still not that great and could be one (more) reason why 200+ HP cars are the norm these days.
I think you better articulated what I was trying to get at in my corkboard-and-red-string rant, haha
I’m in the UK and at the lower end of the financial scale so my first cars were terrible.
1992 Rover Metro 1.1
60bhp, 815kg (1795lb) – 30lb/hp
1987 Vauxhall Astra 2.0 GTE convertible
150bhp, 1105kg (2435lb) – 16lb/hp
1993 VW Golf 1.8
74bhp, 1100kg (2425lb) – 32lb/hp
What was apparent though was that while the lightweight Metro was more than acceptable to drive (though with negative street cred), the Golf was dangerous.
Part of my commute involved a 90° turn across four lanes of traffic at 70-90mph. The low power to weight with a slightly more that featherweight car meant I became a dangerous obstacle quite regularly
My 1976 Honda Civic CVCC with just a tad more than 50 horsepower was probably one of the most fun cars I ever had for a daily driver. And I commuted across town in Dallas with that car.
Ford Festiva (1988) not only did the job, but delivered over 40MPG. Drove it for ten years and never had a single breakdown.
FIFTY horses? Are you some sort of speed-crazed monster? The three-cylinder in my SAAB 96 is rated for a safe and sane 46 hp.
I’ve owned a 50 hp geo metro and several sub 50 hp triumph spitfires. They were the best, most fun cars I ever owned! I also firmly believe, however, that the greatest good would be served by most commuters converting to motorcycles.
As long as that hp isn’t at 8k rpm with less lower end torque than a cordless drill with a dying battery. My ’84 Subaru GLs were about 30 lbs/hp and never felt underpowered because the hp was at 4800 and torque was there right off the line with peak at about 2400. Not far off was my friend’s Delta 88 coupe with the 140 hp 307. Drag “racing” was always dead even. That didn’t feel underpowered either. It’s not just the hp, it’s the torque curve and short gearing can’t offset a poor one (looks sideways at GR86).
My first car was a 1985 Chevy Sprint with a whopping 38hp or so. It weighed somewhere around 1500lbs, maybe less. Though that thing was slow as hell at accelerating, I still was able to manage LA traffic as well as Sierra Nevada mountains. I think some people don’t know how to actually push their pedal down all the way.
Jay-Jay, I fully agree with you, AND, I believe under-powered cars make you a better driver in the long run seeing as you have to think way ahead each move. You wanna pass that truck in order to make the next exit? Well, when you only have so much power on tap, you gotta plan for that.
It drives me nuts when I see someone say they think they don’t feel safe merging onto the freeway with a measly 180-200 hp. It’s like they don’t feel comfortable pushing the gas pedal past the 30% throttle point.
Yes! I’m amazed at how many people I know who seem to feel something’s wrong if they have to mash the pedal and the engine then makes a lot of noise.
I hate to say it, but I think this is a big part of Tesla’s draw for a lot of the fans – they’re vehicles that have much of the vehicle-ness removed.
“Everywhere is within walking distance as long as you have the time” – Steven Wright
Absolutely not.
My diesel VW made like 52 hp and merging onto the Kennedy expressway here in Chicago was terrifying.
Depending on where you live you may need more acceleration to feel safe.
The box truck I drive weighs anywhere between about 15,000 to 20,000 lbs depending on what’s in the back, and it only has 210 hp. That’s at least 70 lbs per hp, and I get everywhere I need to go just fine. I definitely have to pick my moments when, say, making a left turn onto a busy road, but I have never been actually unable to go somewhere due to being underpowered. It’s not particularly fun, but a million commercial drivers do it every day.
Closest I’ve come is my 92 Volvo 745. Looks like that comes to just over 27 pounds per hp. And yes, totally livable. Although accelerating from a stop sign onto a 70mph highway with no on-ramp could get exciting, so once I moved to CT and had to commute on the Merritt Parkway everyday, it had to go.
Agree too, Vanagon diesel of 57hp with absurdly long fourth gear so I know a thing or two about merging on highways and overtaking manoeuvres but it gets me there comfortably, though it tops out more around 65mph than 70-75. Passat B5 TDI with 100hp for that ratio, yep, more than enough. But I like the 130hp in my lighter 2019 VW Caddy. Absolutely zippy for busy Belgian roads. But it’s more zen in my Vanagon, that’s for sure and my arrival times after highway runs are not that much slower. 50hp cars or around that ratio should be offered more and in a more basic car without too many options. But that’s a gripe a lot of my fellow Autopians will have !
50 HP is not enough where I live. We actually have mountains and my commute to work has 500 feet of elevation gain. Further, having more HP allows for more efficient driving. I can get up to speed quicker and maintain that speed at lower RPMs thus using less fuel. Having more HP allows me to be safer as well. I can easily get around that guy that’s trying to make a point that 50 HP is plenty but is really holding up traffic creating a dangerous driving situation for everyone. Save your hamster powered cars for leisurely Sunday drives and get something up to date that has around 150HP for commuting.
I say it’s not HP so much as handling that’s important for modern traffic. My friend has an original Mini from the 60s. (Not a Cooper, just a Mini.) And I’ve had the opportunity to captain that thing across Houston during rush hour a time or twice and it was TERRIFYING!!!
I say this as someone who regularly rides an old Honda Nighthawk with not much more power through the same traffic. Sure the Mini will get up to freeway speeds, it holds 70 just fine, but the 60yo handling is a bit sloppy, the brakes definitely want to go more in one direction than the other when they want to stop at all, you’re never quite sure what gear you’re in. I feel far safer on the motorcycle where at least I can brake and maneuver when needed.
No argument here. When I was a kid, we took family vacations to Colorado all the time, and two of our vehicles for those trips were in the 50 horsepower neighborhood. One was a 1979 Fiat 128, and the other was a 1980 VW Dasher diesel. Both chugged over multiple 10,000-foot-plus mountain passes (my mom thought it was fun to see how many places we could cross the Continental Divide in one two-week trip) and the Dasher even chugged up Pike’s Peak, with a family of 4 and a full load of luggage and souvenirs.
My daily-driver Corolla has a whopping 105 horsepower (take that, Yugo!) and does fine in nearly every driving situation. Sure, I’m winding it out in 2nd and 3rd to merge onto the freeway, but there’s nothing wrong with needing to use most or all of a car’s capability once in a while. In fact, it’s preferable to never having the opportunity to use it to its full extent.
Very light cars can get by with manual brakes & steering, which adds a lot to the driving experience imo. One of the most engaging cars I have ever driven was a ‘58 Morris Minor convertible. NOT an enthusiast’s car by any means (incredibly floppy, and the tiny tires only had about 3&1/3” of tread width), but you felt the road intimately. You were engaged: you had to pay attention because you knew that the tinfoil around you would surrender to a moped. But, it wasn’t just the chance of dying that was entertaining: it was being present right now: sorta zen.
It wasn’t mine, so I never hooned it, but I sometimes idly search for one for sale nearby: I’d like to do a low key rallye treatment to a MM1000 sedan someday and play on Forrest Service roads…
If the car is light enough, absolutely, all in proportion. I near-daily something with 110, which, OK, is a lot more than 50, but still paltry by modern standards, and it’s actually enough to get into the left lane on the Interstate and blow by trucks and buses. Power just has to be sufficient in relation to weight, a 50hp Imperial LeBaron would hardly back out of the driveway
110 is about what my Miata makes, and that car is hilariously fun. I’m not winning any races, but it certainly has no trouble keeping up, even if the left lane on the highway is doing 90—which happens around here, sometimes. Mind you, if I look down and find that I’m doing 90 in a 65 I do move over to a slower lane, but only because I don’t relish the idea of having an unplanned interaction with law enforcement.
I agree with your power-to-weight ratios. Weights are only going higher, so HP has to scale appropriately. But why should every EV have 300+ and a 0-60 time under 5 seconds? It’s simply not needed.
Agreed. First car was a ’61 Beetle. Went way further than I should have in it.
Unless, that is, you need A/C. Then I’d venture to say 50 is cutting it thin.
My Suzuki Cappucino 64HP (at the wheels) and 700kg (1543 lbs) is faster than 80% of traffic I find myself in, so I fully support your supposition.
You are absolutely right. Miatas are a prime example. I’ve had plenty of fun driving in my Miatas and never needed 300+ HP. When I see all these high HP sportscars on the road with me I feel sorry for them. They are no fun at 40 mph, but I can have a great time at 40 in my Miata. I figure the faster sportscars need to go to a track or do something stupid on a public road to get near their limits. I’ve had my share of big HP cars and I do NOT miss them.
I like your point here…you said a lot in a little space. The power isn’t really the experience anymore.
My take is that increasing engine power after a certain point becomes real-world meaningless, or at least in the situations most of us find ourselves 80 – 90% of the time. Esp. as traffic continually increases (for most people) and average speeds traveled go down.
And I kinda feel we reached that point maybe 10, 15 years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, I love moar power as much as anyone, but it seems now mostly about theoretical bragging rights for something you own, rather than something you’ll actually use/enjoy.
It’s especially meaningless if the ECU won’t even let you access that theoretical HP number unless certain conditions are met. How many hp is that Hellcat putting down before traction control intervenes?
I thought my ’84 Civic had 50 hp and was going to agree with you but it actually had 75 face melting horses so I will instead say you’re wrong and you need at least 75hp to unlock joy.
Compelling case, well made (though I was already inclined to agree)