Good morning, Autopians! We’re starting the week off with two SUVs from Nissan, both in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area, and both with some battle scars. Before we look at them, we need to take a look at Friday’s results:
And it’s the Beetle by a mile, as I suspected it would be. I don’t know what it is about these slow, primitive, goofy-looking little cars that is so imprinted on the collective unconscious, but it’s undeniable. My biggest problem with this one is that it’s white; it would be hard to resist painting Herbie stripes and roundels on it and calling it “Ocho.”
All right. Today’s choices are from Philly, a city I have visited but don’t know much about, other than there’s a lot of Revolutionary War history there, it’s the Fresh Prince’s hometown, and there’s some sandwich they’re really proud of. Also I think something sportsball-related happened there this weekend? I’m not sure.
But I do know Nissan trucks and SUVs. They’re prone to oil leaks and electrical gremlins, but otherwise tough as old boots. Which is a good thing in this case, because apparently Philadelphians are hard on their cars. Let me show you what I mean.
2008 Nissan Armada – $3,800
Engine/drivetrain: 5.6 liter overhead-cam V8, five-speed automatic, part-time 4WD
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Odometer reading: 175,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep, but check engine light is on
The Nissan Armada is a full-size SUV, Nissan’s answer to the Chevy Tahoe and Ford Expedition. Like those, it’s based on a full-size pickup platform, in this case the Nissan Titan. It uses the Titan’s 5.6 liter V8 and five-speed automatic. It seats eight, can tow a small office building, and takes up two parking spots at Costco if the driver isn’t careful. You get it.
This 2008 Armada has an infotainment screen, but it still has all sorts of buttons and knobs to play with on the dash and steering wheel. This is a fancy model, it looks like, so it is at maximum button saturation. How much of it still works is a mystery; the ad only mentions a non-functional passenger side window and a fuel gauge that fails to do its one job. Not the best gauge to be missing on a gas-guzzler like this.
The seller says this truck runs and drives well, and doesn’t have a rusty frame, but the check engine light is on. Some places don’t care about such things when you go to renew the registration, some do. I suspect Pennslyvania is one of those places that cares very much, and that the seller already knows what the repair bill will be, hence the somewhat low price.
And then there’s the exterior. The more places you look, the more dings and scrapes you see on this thing. I mean, it’s a big vehicle, and the sight lines can’t be great on it, but that’s a lot of altercations with parking lot bollards and garage edges and whatnot.
2009 Nissan Murano – $2,750
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5 liter dual overhead cam V6, CVT automatic, AWD
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Odometer reading: 183,000 miles
Runs/drives? “Greatly,” according to the seller
OK, fine. If you want to split hairs and get pedantic, the Murano is a crossover and not an SUV, being based on a car platform. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well, you know. It shares a platform with those two lovable buy-here-pay-here scamps, the Altima and the Maxima, as well as their better-than-the-rest-of-the-car VQ35DE V6 engine. In the Murano, it’s coupled to a continuously variable transmission that the seller says “shifts smoothly” (I bet it does) powering all four wheels.
Inside, this Murano looks a little grubby, but otherwise good. I have a feeling “grubby but intact” is going to be a description that fits a lot of cars from the late-2000s going forward; the materials hold up, but everything gets cheap-looking very quickly. The soft-touch materials get nasty, and the silver paint wears off the corners of things, and it all just starts to look a bit sad.
It sounds like the mechanics of this car are in decent shape. The VQ engine is a known quantity, having seen duty in everything from Altimas to 350Zs to Pathfinders over the years. The life expectancy of CVTs isn’t as well known, and since they all feel like they’re slipping even when they’re new, I’m not sure how you tell when they’re going bad. Do they just suddenly stop working? That wouldn’t be much fun.
But again, outside, this thing is beat all to hell. The seller says this hit in the rear is just the bumper cover, but I have my doubts. I’d want to make sure the hatch closes all right. There is also a good ding in the left front, where it caught some sheetmetal and not just the plastic, and some rust evident behind the front wheels.
I have had good experiences with the Nissan trucks I’ve had over the years, including a 1983 720 pickup and a 1991 Pathfinder with well over 300,000 miles on it. My wife’s current car is an Infiniti QX4 with the same V6 engine as this Murano. It leaks some oil, but it starts right up and runs beautifully. And she had a Frontier pickup for many years that served her well. I trust Nissan trucks and SUVs, and can recommend them. So the question today is, which flavor do you want, and how ugly are you willing to tolerate?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I picked the Murano because… I have no idea. I really don’t know how I decided. I just clicked. It just happened. I am so sorry. I’m lost. What do I even do now? Is this how it always feels when someone “opts” for Murano?
Someone much wiser than me once said “not one drives a Nissan on purpose”
F* Muranos. I still hold Nissan accountable for kicking off this blobby CUV craze with this car. Sure, there may have been car-based “utility vehicles” prior, but the Murano cranked it up to eleven with the blobby styling and CVT. Someone else would have inevitably built a similar car, but it was Nissan that brought this crap into the mainstream.
Farmcraft 101 on YouTube just did a Nissan CVT swap, it’s clearly the weak point of the car but can be kept running with care. His project vehicle is being donated to a high school student so it will either be well maintained as part of the deal or totally neglected.
I’m a fan of the old Daf/Volvo cars so I think a CVT is good technology, I just question the execution, just as a DSG transmission can be good but Ford Powershift was a deeply flawed execution
My sister bought a brand new Murano of this vintage. She loved it, but life circumstances changed and she had to start driving a lot longer distances. Apparently the Murano got pretty shitty gas mileage. So that, along with her lead foot, had her deciding to trade it for a RAV4 just 10 months in. Depreciation on that trade? $10K! Or, almost 4 whole shitbox Muranos. She did enjoy the RAV4 a lot as well though, and actually ended up keeping that one for awhile.
Armada for me. Those earlier CVTs make me think of a paper-clip being bent one way or the other every time they’re driven.
Ugh. Neither. Neither a thousand times.
I guess I could pull the V8 and drivetrain from the Armada for a project at least?
Bleh. I need a shower.
As much as I hate the big Armada/Canyonero, I have to pick that because the damage only looks cosmetic. That Murano scares me. Maybe it doesn’t actually leak but the last thing you want to see is a gap in the rear hatch right next to the tailpipe.
Hi. It’s me. The only commenter on this site who doesn’t abjectly hate Nissan CVTs. I voted for the Armada because I’m not stupid, but I figured I’d drop in to talk shop about CVTs.
For starters, a CVT is still technically a torque converter automatic. Some CVTs, particularly those in small-engine applications, allow the traction belt to slip against the pulley when idling and taking off. These Jatco CVTs generally don’t; there’s a regular-ass torque converter between the engine and the CVT.
My main argument is that these CVTs aren’t terrible engineering, so much as the wrong design for the wrong market. CVTs are sensitive to the viscosity and heat transfer characteristics of their fluid. This is why they have 30k fluid change intervals for all but the lightest use cases and 60k otherwise. But your average Nissan owner isn’t shelling out $300 every few years for transmission fluid changes when “my buddy’s Corolla has 250k miles on its factory transmission fluid.” So these CVTs start slipping and overheating and crapping out entirely at 100k miles, which doesn’t seem like much until you realize that’s three missed fluid intervals on a fluid that really shouldn’t miss any intervals.
And then there’s the droning. Yeah, the engine will drone on acceleration. It’s because Nissan had the decency not to program fake shifts into a continuously variable transmission. On acceleration, the ECU shoves the engine into its sweet spot on the torque-RPM map and leaves it there to do its thing. Oh, and ever had an automatic transmission keep smashing upshifts and downshifts in cruise control while trying to navigate hills? None of that shit here. The CVT smoothly drags engine RPMs up and down in cruise control and it’s a genuinely smooth ride.
I’m under no impression that these transmissions are anything approaching good; they’re just not the pit of despair that everyone seems to label them as. Occasionally replace the transmission’s internal filters, dump some fresh Amsoil into there every 30k miles, and, assuming you’re buying one used, enjoy the heavy depreciation brought to you by the CVTs’ reputation.
They need more frequent maintenance than any of the DCTs I’ve owned….
So, frequent fluid changes, droning, and increased depreciation? Really making a strong case….
I picked the Murano, but I’m not happy abowt it.
Please understand that my first experience with Datsun (name change to Nissan is considered one of the worst marketing botches in history) was with a ’72 510 4-door, 5-speed. then a ’78 720 King Cab, then an ’89 King Cab.
I bought a new ’08 Frontier and was happy with the engine, the trans was prone to contamination because lines were routed thru radiator. A bypass would head off this problem, but some owners were caught out.
That was then, this is now. Most newer cars leave me cold, and both of these have me reaching for a sweater.
My mom’s last-year-of-Datsun 1982 Maxima wagon was one of the best cars my family ever had. She bought it new, and it was still going strong at nearly 250,000 miles when an oblivious teenager rear-ended her hard and totaled it. The insurance payout was an insult.
3rd option. Walk/Bus/Train.
Like Montgomery Brewster, I choose none of the above. I do, however, have Philadelphia Freedom stuck in my head now and it wasn’t even mentioned.
Living in a state that only charges the current owner the registration fess of their use and not the other person that didn’t, that is not a concern.
I would want to do a scan for the code, but this thing already is a winter beater and would work at that. The fuel gauge and window are fixable.
Armada by a country mile. V8 and torque converter auto. For as much shit as Nissan (correctly!) gets that V8 powertrain is rock solid. A Nissan V6/Jatco CVT combo can turn into a four figure repair in the blink of an eye. Hell, I have coworkers whose Nissans have shat out their CVTs and needed repairs to the tune of $3-5000.
Never touch a CVT Nissan…and if it’s your only viable option keep saving and try to work on improving your credit score…because that 8 year Nissan loan at 11% APR is the trap to end all traps.
Came here to say this – I wonder how many CVTs it took to get to 175k? Probably at least 3 and now this one is about to crap the bed.
The Murano looks like a flying suppository but the Armada looks like a flying butt-ress. While both are comfortable SUVs, if you’re a taller guy, 6’+ you’ll know that the Titan/Armada is comfortable in a very special way. The Armada just needs a front bumper, whereas the Murano needs a rear bumper and the driver side rear quarter. Even with the price disparity, the mileage and overall value is in favor of the Armada.
I can’t find a use-case for either of these and must default to Regular Car Reviews mocking:
It’s called an ARMADA because IT’S TIME TO FIGHT THE WAR AGAIN. MY CAR SHOULD BE AS HOSTILE AS I AM TO MY LIVER.
MURANO SOUNDS LIKE URINAL HURR HURR AMI RIGHT GUYS??? HURR HURR IT’S FER LADIES AND HAIRDRESSERS.
In all seriousness, I feel like there’s better ways to spend money than these two fine… uh… pieces of… um… engineering exceptionalism. Sure. Lets go with that. So, neither.
‘and takes up two parking spots at Costco if the driver isn’t careful.’
Sounds perfect for the guy who’s glory days was as a middle/high school bully:
“Yeah, so?”
What are ya gonna do about it? Huh? What’ya gonna do?”
“Yeah, that’s what I thought!”
At first glance, I thought that the pink thing dangling from the shifter in the Armada was a pair of women’s underwear. I’m not sure if that would have been more or less of a red flag than the multiple little tree air fresheners.
I hate that cloying fake chemical scent that those trees give off because they’re usually covering up something worse. Maybe the foam in the seats has absorbed a decade of cigarette smoke; maybe there’s a zombie ham sandwich decaying and gaining sentience in the glove compartment.
Whatever the case, it’s hiding something. And since the Murano also has a little tree, I don’t want it either.
Find one in every car… You’ll see.
https://youtu.be/2Mxs6A1byIo
Murilee Martin! Junkyard finds
Goodness I hate both of these. Undisclosed CEL is always going to be a nightmare, and CVT is a deal breaker even before looking at how terrible that Murano is. I did go Armada just because it’s not a CVT, but I would never consider purchasing either of these.
It feels weird to think the Armada is a better deal considering the CEL but the alternative is a Murano so I guess it makes sense. Armada for me.
The Armada’s fuel gauge should be no big deal so long as the trip computer still tells the fuel range.
CVT is a deal breaker for me. It just feels soooo wrrrrong.
CVTs are the worst and this is arguably the worst CVT of all. Absolute hell world. Give me the under stressed V8 and torque converter every single time.
I had a CPO Juke with the CVT – great car, except for the transmission. Despite regular fluid changes, it started crapping out on me about a month after the clock ran on the warranty. Did one more change and traded it in on a Ram.
I almost felt guilty about what they gave me for it.
My mom had a G35 (or 37?) where the fuel gauge didn’t work and neither did the distance to empty. Repair was going to be very expensive as it was some computer module replacement so she just reset the trip odometer and only went 300km between fills.
Even though both are dinged up a smidge, it beats walking.
Both of these are awful, so I’ll take the cash.
They’re so awful you can keep the cash and I’ll take the aptly named SEPTA bus.
It’s easy to look at both of these jalopies and start thinking about how much fun I could have over a long weekend in Vegas for $2,800-$3,800. Maybe not The Hangover fun, but definitely more than Leaving Las Vegas fun.
I stopped reading at “CVT”. Those were a disaster when the vehicle was new and under warranty. Armada for me.
Maybe a Turbo 350 or a Torqueflite will bolt in there, IDK.
I’m guessing the Murano is being sold because the seller knows their insurance company will total it over the rear collision damage. Though even assuming the seller has insurance on it takes a leap of faith. A late aughts Nissan CVT is the cherry on top for a vehicle that might as well have a spot reserved for it at the local pick and pull.
The Armada wins by default.
Agreed. That massive liftgate gap tells me it likely has structural damage. Ruled out by default.
And the rear quarter doesn’t align with the rear door. Definitely tweaked under there. (I wish I could edit…)
“I suspect Pennslyvania is one of those places that cares very much.”
Yes, that would need to be sorted, especially if it’s related to any emissions system.
I picked the Murano hoping for a bit better fuel mileage.
Ha! I’d suspect “a bit better fuel mileage” is somewhere around double as those Nissan V8s are quite thirsty engines.