The average transaction price for a new car in the United States almost reached $50,000 this year and has stubbornly refused to recede, hovering around $48,000 for most of 2024. Even with increased incentives, the lack of affordable financing has made it harder for people to buy cars. That’s changing just a little bit.
Have you ever gone to a wedding or any big event with a buffet and they clearly have a few extra chafing dishes at the end so they fill it with super random stuff? It starts out normal, with chicken, some form of green bean, a potato done in an extra fancy way, some kind of half-assed vegetarian option, and maybe a prime rib if the parents really want the wedding to stick. But then it’s pork egg rolls, eggplant parm, and saag paneer to round it out.
I’m not complaining! One of the best weddings I’ve ever gone to had the most chaotic food choices and it was a blast.
That’s The Morning Dump today. I have no big thought that ties everything together. First up is car financing, then some VW union news, followed by the revelation that the alleged UHC CEO killer worked in the car industry, and then I’ll share a news report about Stellantis that I did right before Tavares got canned.
Great Deals Abound For Certain Cars
I think the story of the car market this year has been one of rebounding inventory, stale products, too many electric cars, and not enough cheap financing. With the Fed finally lowering rates and the economy maintaining its steam, automakers are becoming more aggressive with car loans.
“Auto loan rates are declining, with the average used rate at 13.76% and new rate at 9.12%,” according to economist Jonathan Smoke at Cox Automotive, who adds that there’s a lot more low-interest lending as “lenders become more aggressive.”
This summer, the best financing was probably on cars you didn’t necessarily want. Assuming you had decent credit, there was a Nissan dealer somewhere willing to sell you a Rogue at a good rate. That’s still true today, as CarEdge points out, with Nissan offering 0% financing for 60 months.
It’s not just Nissan in the game. Mazda has offered competitive financing deals all year and now could give you 0.9% financing for 60 months on any version of the very good CX-90, including the plug-in hybrid.
If you want a pickup truck, both the Toyota Tundra and Ram 1500 are competing for the title of “the other truck” people buy. Toyota is doing 1.99-2.99% financing for up to 72 months as well as cash-on-the-hood. Ram is offering 15% off MSRP and 0.9% financing for 72 months on the 2024 Big Horn.
Even Subaru is in the game, with the slower-selling 2024 Outback getting 2.9% financing for 72 months. While I didn’t love my Forester, Subarus are still great cars, and the Outback, in particular, is a uniquely cool vehicle.
As always, these deals are reliant on region, dealer, and your own credit. The existence of all these deals, plus other factors, makes me think December car sales are going to be quite high this year. This is especially true if you’re willing to buy a 2024 MY vehicle and overlook the 2025 that just arrived on the lot.
Volkswagen And Union Continue To Talk, Continue To Make Little Progress
I have a lot of dumb ideas for how automakers should act that I explain on this blog. Do I have an idea for how Volkswagen can extract itself from its current mess? I do not. Specifically, I do not know how to bridge the divide between Volkswagen and its union, IG Metall, in Germany.
It turns out that I’m not alone. Volkswagen can’t figure it out, either. Here’s what the company is saying:
Arne Meiswinkel, chief negotiator at Volkswagen AG, said: “Today’s discussions were constructive, but we remain significantly apart on a solution. However, further collaboration is needed to identify additional financial opportunities. The goal remains to find short-term and sustainable measures to reduce costs in order to secure the company’s competitiveness in the long term.”
The employee side had submitted a counter-proposal in the previous round of negotiations, which signaled its openness to a financial contribution from employees. The company welcomed this step, but pointed out that this proposal was not sufficient to ensure a sustainable reduction in costs.
Basically, Volkswagen wants to close plants. The union wants to do anything but close plants. Volkswagen is not as competitive in Europe, North America, or just about anywhere as it once was. It probably needs to close plants to deal with its overcapacity.
Unfortunately, Volkswagen promised its workers years ago that it wouldn’t close plants and the German political system is partially built on VW employment in what used to be East Germany.
Good luck with all that.
There’s Always A Car Angle
I was tempted to avoid this one, but it’s news so I’ll do it quickly. As some of you have pointed out, the person suspected of killing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in an assassination in New York City did work for the popular car-buying website TrueCar.
According to Automotive News, the alleged killer was not working there when the murder occurred:
Mangione joined the vehicle listings company as a data engineer in November 2020, according to his LinkedIn page. But he hasn’t worked for the company in nearly a year, a TrueCar spokesperson told Automotive News via email.
“While we generally don’t comment on personnel matters, we confirm that Luigi Mangione has not been an employee of our company since 2023,” the spokesperson said.
And that’s enough of that.
What Happened To Jeep?
I did an interview with the non-profit news organization More Perfect Union about Carlos Tavares and Stellantis’ recent woes. You can see the video above (or linked here). I think it turned out well, though I did the interview before Tavares resigned, so that was fun timing.
Please enjoy me dressing like Sergio Marchionne. [Editor’s Note: Matt has pointed this out to me a couple times, and I think it may be the subtlest, nearly-imperceptible, deepest cut/in-joke that we’ve ever had here. I just thought Matt was wearing gonna-be-on-camera Matt clothes, but then again, I always mention Carl Sagan when I wear a turtleneck and blazer, so I’m really no better. – JT]
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
The Foo Fighters video for “Big Me” is absolutely one of my all-time favorites. I was thinking about this recently after I saw this viral clip about Christopher Walken unwittingly mispronouncing the band’s name. Now my wife and I will sometimes blurt out “Foo Fighters” in our worst Walken impression, just for lolz.
The Big Question
What’s the best deal you’ve ever gotten on a car?
I’ll be taking out an auto loan after the new year and one local credit union is currently at 4.75%, with others in the area at 5-5.50% for 36 or 48 month new vehicle loans. The dealer is at 9% last time I checked. Hit up your local credit unions, people.
Jesus weeping christ. How do you manage to get to 9% without being like, two clams and a dirty rubber duck MSRP?
I have to wonder how many people are actually qualifying for those teaser rates. And that’s not even getting into those rates being tied to 60- and 72-month boat anchors. Sure, the average rate is down to 9.12%, but I’m curious as to what the average length is.
770 credit score and 15 years of history at Bank of America, they still won’t go less than 10% for a 48-month.
It’s limited for sure. You should likely qualify for it on new, if you’re current on all payments and no recent late/missed, through the finance arm for most makers.
842 here. Same shit. Fuck them…
Same bank for over 42 years now.
Did I say fuck them?
Never late on a thing, ever…Greedy bastards.
Had some good luck with a few cars:
’74 Super Beetle, front end wrecked but ran and sort of drivable- $1000 in 1984
’82 Chevy S-10 extended cab with cap – 2.8l V6, 5spd, with air. 2wd. Bought for $3500, drove for 2.5 years, sold for $4k.
’79 Ford Fiesta – lime green with black hockey stick trim up the side, houndstooth interior. Replaced the transaxle, motor mount, and clutch assy. Bought for $50, paid $250 in parts, drove it 30k miles, sold it for $50 after it jumped time. Guy who bought it took it to his service station, opened the sunroof, filled it with dirt, and planted flowers inside it.
2018 Kia Sorento SX – bought in 2020 for $28,500 with 10k miles. Traded with 55k miles this year for $20k. Didn’t make money on it but it held value quite well.
My understanding is that Walken asked Dave Grohl how to say it and he said it like this because he thought it would be funny…and it was.
Bought a car for $500, fixed it with $50 worth of junk yard parts, got a deal on clearance tires from Walmart – four for $100 (plus tax). After cleaning it and doing routine maintenance (fluid changes and grease), I was in it for $800 and drove it for four years and then traded it in for $1200 – I essentially drove it for free (aside from fuel costs) for four years.
Another was a Chevy 2500HD Duramax that I snagged right after trade-in (before it had been cleaned or marketed) for about $5k under book value. It cleaned up nearly flawlessly, and I drove it for a few years until I no longer had a need for a tow pig. Sold it for almost $7k more than I paid for it a few years prior (DPF had become a known issue, so my non-DPF Duramax shot up in value while I owned it).
The best deal I got was just last month on my second Miata. A person in the local Miata club was selling a 2016 ND. It wasn’t listed anywhere, he just stood up in the meeting and talked about the car and the price. Soul Red, base model convertible, except with an automatic transmission and just under 65,000 miles. The seller was in his 80’s and just couldn’t get in and out of it anymore. It was his 8th Miata and his only one that wasn’t an NA or NB.
Carvana had offered him $11,000, but he really wanted it to go to a member of the club and only wanted $10,000. I ended up calling the next day and asking if it was still for sale and a few days later, it was in my driveway as a surprise for my middle son. It’s not perfect and has a lot of chips, dings, and dents, and the history of 2 minor accidents as you might expect with a driver in his 80’s, but it had a full maintenance history, all the receipts and a set of winter tires and rims as well. The previous owner is a gem and even sent us a box a few weeks later with a book about the Miata, his window sticker, more service records, and a nice letter, so we made a friend too, with a great car history. I posted it a while back in the discord but he had a list of all the cars he had owned and there was some cool and odd stuff on there, like a 61 Sunbeam Alpine in 1962, a ’57 Saab 93 in 1963, a 61 Morgan Plus 4 in 1963, and a new Vette in 1964.
My thinking that it’s a nice little commuter car for him and I’m sure not going to find anything that dependable for 10 grand. It gets about 35 mpg so far, it’s 155hp, so fun, but not overly fast, and it’s really fueled his interest in cars. It replaced a 2008 STS that he was driving, so he’s already used to RWD and a lot more power, but in a heavier car. It will be nice for him to improve from the 16mpg he’s getting in the STS. That will move on to my 3rd kid.
Now he has a reason to wrench together with me It was just fun to change the oil and sparkplugs this weekend with him. He’s pushing me now to teach him to drive stick, which I will do this spring in my 2006 NC, but my Miata is not going out in the winter like his is. And I can steal his car occasionally to get my “fun car” fix in the winter.
Great find. My wife DD’s a manual 2021 ND RF. I love it but rarely get to drive it (i’m stuck with the 2016 Highlander), so first of the year, going to look for a lightly used 20xx ND Club, maybe soft top, as my fun “run errands” car. I’m 100% WFH so most days I’m just out running local errands during lunch, will still have the Highlander as the “functional need” vehicle.
The best deal I ever got on a car was probably the 2000 Ford Focus ZX3 I bought in 2002 with only 12K miles for $8,000. It was essentially a new car that happened to be sitting at a local dealer at the same time my previous car died from a blown head gasket. Probably didn’t hurt that no one was rushing to buy a 2 door, manual hatchback with crank windows.
I bought a 1995 Ford Escort from a loss leader ad in the newspaper for $9,999.
For younger readers, a newspaper is a group of news and ad’s that are printed daily on paper.
1983 Dodge Aires for $500. Super clean, super slow.
I got my GTI for about $4,000 under MSRP at 0% APR back in 2020 when they were giving cars away. I doubt I’m ever going to top that but damn it I’m going to try.
I nearly pulled the trigger on a manual Sportwagon in 2019 when they were heavily discounted and offering the longer warranty. Almost talked my buddy into an Alltrack at the same time (I think the Alltrack was $6-7k under sticker and the Sportwagons were around $5k under). Probably wouldn’t have seen 0% though. I also recall some good deals on the last 2-door GTIs a couple years earlier. None were exciting enough to pry me away from my (paid off) FRS, though. If you were looking for a manual hatch/wagon in the later 20-teens, there were definately deals to be had.
£75 for a Citroen Visa in the early 90’s. Plus it had 6 months road tax already paid. I think that was worth $50 back then.
Best Deal? On the low end it was probably the 1984 Buick LeSabre one of my ex-girlfriends’ dad offered to give me when he was moving to a new place. Ran great, but looked quite rough. It didn’t help that we ripped the back seat out of it one night at a bonfire/kegger when we ran out of things to burn, but it did make it into a better parts-chaser. Ended up being something of a community car – my then girlfriend (now wife) borrowed it, my roommate borrowed it, his girlfriend borrowed it – it was the go-to cruiser whenever someone’s car was broken-down. I never did anything to it – it always started, always ran great, and I finally sold it for $75 to the local garbage man after a couple of years when I got tired of looking at it.
On the other end of the scale was my 2012 Volt: bought in 2016 for $11,500 (the most expensive car I’ve ever purchased to date), credit union loan for 4 years at 2.9% and the car had 40,000 miles on it at purchase. Still driving it, now with 122,000 miles – it still looks good and with liability-only insurance is some remarkably cheap transportation.
First month of the pandemic in the U.S. I picked up a two-year old Fit EX with just under 12,000 miles for about $13k. You’d think it was because of the pandemic, but they’d been sitting on the car so long I honestly think it’s just because it was orange. I’m in the market again and older Fits with more miles are on sale with higher prices.
Second best deal – a Type R for MSRP.
Spectacular deal on the Fit!
Best deal I ever got on a car was my first Miata. It had been involved in a minor collision, the dealer bought it, threw in a new radiator and AC condenser, repaired the front bumper cover, and listed it for $2k. I saw it within minutes and was the first one to call on it. it was 70 miles away from me, and I needed a ride to get it, so I asked if he would hold it until that evening. He agreed, just being excited someone was interested so quickly.
He proceeded to get more than 100 calls on it throughout the day, I ended up taking an extended lunch break to go up and buy it, but then left it there until I could get the ride since I can’t drive 2 cars at once. That car was excellent, gave me no issues for several years and I drove it fron Utah, to North Carolina, Alabama, and then finally sold it living in Texas. I sold it for $3500 after adding 40k miles. It took me several years to get back into an NA, but I have one again and all is right in the world.
After all these years, I am saddened that the Foo Fighters have not won the war against Foo.
I don’t know, I think they are doing a pretty good job. In all my years alive I have not encountered a single Foo.
Maybe instead of fighting Foos, or pitying them, the approach is to have empathy.
They’re not fighting AGAINST the Foo, they ARE the Foo. Fighty Foos. You know, like how a bear hug isn’t actually hugging a bear.
Am I the only one that kinda feels sorry for that stock VW assembly line worker picture you always use??
Best deal:
My current 2018 Bolt. 33k, $12k (after everything), 5.5%ish, brand… new… battery with 8year/100k warranty.
Also my only deal, as this is my first dealer experience.
Best best deal:
my FREE 1994 Toyota Pickup (that only needed a timing chain)
Yeah, that guy looks pretty nervous. “Pleasepleaseplease don’t fall on my arm again.”
My GX470, bought it earlier this year for 5k, it’s an 03 in one-year-only sand dollar pearl paint that’s in nearly perfect shape, has 167k miles, and while it needed repairs, and despite a mechanic massively screwing me over, should still net me at least 2k in profit when I’m all done.
A close second, or maybe winner even, was my former 2018 Golf Sportwagen. It was an S 4motion with the 6-speed stick, blue over tan interior, and bought it brand new off the lot for nearly 25% off MSRP. It was a 25k flat sticker, and the dealer couldn’t move it, so I got it for 19,600, came out to about 21.5k OTD with no awful add-ons. At the time it was on par with 3 year old, 50k mile manual Crosstreks, and this was a new, warrantied, extra geared, turbo charged station wagon.
I bought my ’81 RX7, did nothing to it but drive it for two summers, then sold it for $1k more than I bought it.
I’ll probably never top that.
Best car deal ever: Sometime in the late 90s I bought a ’91 Toyota pickup from my parents for $1.
Getting people to take them away for free when I’m done with them, including all the extra parts.
Just got a gti with $2500 from vw, $2k from the dealer, and 5.4 from the bank. Had to jump as the sticks are going away and the used prices are still silly
Oh damn! Nice!
Great job in the Jeep video, watched it this morning and then a surprise Hardibird!
No one expects
the Spa… Hardibird!The best deal was probably my Model Y. Hard to say no to 0.9% (yes, they’re doing 0% now), a recent price cut (probably lower now but I refuse to check) and in my state $8000 of government cheese on the hood (still there for the time being). It’s just hit 10k miles. The avoided gasoline and ICE maintenance costs have paid for the interest savings that waiting for 0% would have. I didn’t buy at pandemic pricing and had the chance to undercoat it before driving on salty roads.
We’ve done okay on our previous purchases too.
And this is why for all the griping commenters do about Musk Tesla is still making a killing. They are absolutely the best deal going for the common person. They are reasonably nice cars for a very attractive price that cost very little to keep running. Maybe Hundai/Kia can crack the market eventually and give some more competition in the space.
They all need control arm bushings at 50k miles or so. Tires are also expensive. That said, a Model Y is an engineering marvel. Having so much interior room in its footprint is incredible. H/K is close but not there yet. The Detroit 2.5 are so far off the pace it’s incredible.
My wife and I will still reference Footos: The Fresh Fighter and our kids look at us like we are insane. Then they figure out it is another stupid 90s thing and roll their eyes.
Not really surprising Toyota is offering better terms on Tundra loans. Probably better than 1/3 of the local dealer’s new inventory is comprised of pricey Tundras. If you add in Tacomas, it’s probably more than half trucks. The aging Highlander is the most scarce, right behind the back-ordered-for-forever Sienna van.
If you want a Camry, RAV4 or just about anything else, the selection is thin, but there.
The Tundra and Tacoma have been major sales flops. I think ditching NA engines pushed a lot of the hardcore truck folks away and the recently reliability foibles of the iForce Max and turbo V6 powertrains got rid of everyone else.
This is my thought too. While I know turbos in places like Aus last a long time (on diesels however) I’m still iffy. My dad’s 80s bmw turbo is still going strong, while the turbos in my 2007 bmw were absolute trash. Not every turbo engine is built the same apparently, and just because it’s newer doesn’t mean it’s any more reliable (look at how warranties haven’t extended). Toyota and Honda have been banking on their reputation of reliability for far too long, and they’re all beginning to slip, while increasing prices. It doesn’t seem to really be worth the extra money at the moment when the warranty is the same as any other brand that is 10 grand cheaper.
Yeah it’s a tough call for sure. Downsizing and turbocharging has been a real thorn in Toyota’s side and if they of all people can’t manage to do it reliably then who the hell can?
For what it’s worth I’ve owned two turbo cars in a row now and both have had serious issues with misfiring. The VW folks could never figure out what was going on with my GTI, which I mainly got out of due to how much of a bother it was….and then after 15,000 problem free miles my Kona N started misfiring too.
The initial fix was a recall/ECU reprogramming that did nothing yo alleviate the problem. They’ve now replaced my knock sensors and that seems to be working for now. The next step is an entire new engine and boy am I hoping we don’t wind up there after reading about the horrors so many other Kia/Hyundai owners have dealt with when their engines kerploded.
Suffice to say I’m now deeply skeptical of turbos and would ideally like to avoid them altogether the next time I buy.
Exactly, I’m in the camp that an engine in 2024 SHOULD last 160,000klms trouble free (regular maintenance+wear items) but high stress gas 4bangers give me pause, diesel seems to be much better application for a turbo (land Cruisers down under) especially with smaller displacement.
The turbo engine in my Cruze was good to me. Then again I replaced almost everything made of plastic on that engine at some point during my ownership.
I got around the turbo reliability issue by purchasing an EV.
And if you want a Sienna, get in line. A very long line.
Grand Highlander Hybrid doesn’t seem any better. Or the Highlander Hybrid for that matter.
I’ve started combing used cars. Maybe a Lexus RX350L will work instead of the Grand Highlander. And if I am buying a non-hybrid Highlander, I want a trusty V6 instead of a new turbo motor from Toyota. I’ll pay the 2 mpg penalty I guess.
Checked in on the CX-90 PHEV…thing has had a lot of recalls.