Nothing has been confirmed yet, but there’s a strong likelihood that struggling Nissan will merge with Honda to form a Japanese automotive supergroup to attempt world domination. Much talk has centered around the financial aspects of such a deal, but we Autopians don’t really care about that. No, all we’re thinking about is what cars might result from such a partnership – or even what might have emerged had such a collaboration existed ten, twenty, or even thirty years ago.
It’s hard to generalize, but at least in the past Honda would have been the go-to for smaller cars, particularly if one wanted maximum efficiency and engines that revved ’till the cows came home. Add more power? Honda would choose to not add more cylinders but instead install more valves, camshafts, or whatever other technology needed to get unmatched horsepower per liter. It seemed like forever and a day before Honda finally gave in and put a V6 in the Accord.
On the other hand, Nissan seemed to excel in the larger-sized and bigger-engined cars that Honda wasn’t interested in. Straight sixes and V6 motors powered Datsun and later Nissan luxury sedans, Z car sports coupes and even off-road-capable trucks or SUVs.
Meshing these strengths years ago could seemingly have made a superpower capable of putting the smackdown on rival Toyota or at least made their life miserable. Here’s a few possible mashups that combine the best from both companies in that bygone era (or do they?).
Nissan MID4 Twin Turbo
When thinking of iconic high-performance Hondas, surely one has to put the NSX at the top of the list. Reportedly developed with the help of legendary driver Ayrton Senna, this mid-engined masterpiece dared to go head-to-head with Italian exotics with engines far larger and more powerful than the sweet V6 in the upstart Honda. To me, that raises the question: if it was this good with that small engine, what on earth would it be like with a real supercar motor?
At the time, Honda didn’t necessarily have anything in its arsenal to make that happen, but collaborating with Nissan would have given them access to a V8. The powerplant used in the Nissan President and the Infiniti Q45 would have been able to pump out close to (if not more than) 400 horsepower with the help of twin turbos; a big lift from the NSX’s standard 250 or so.
Meanwhile, Nissan in this period was working on a concept car called the MID4, an attempt at a Ferrari-like supercar that even featured all-wheel drive.
Could we add that Infiniti V8 by stretching the wheelbase and length a bit on the Honda sports car? What about that all-wheel drive system in the proposed MID4 concept? Could it handle the power of a V8, and fit into the NSX? If so, we’d have a refined monster on our hands:
The animation shows the modifications:
Honda could still have offered the NSX to challenge the other exotics with a better car at a lower price. The Nissan MID4 version would likely have cost twice as much as the NSX, but with the V8 powering all four wheels would have more than challenged the big European brands: its performance would have obliterated them while still being dead reliable.
Honda S3500
The Honda S2000 was an unexpected roadster from Honda, a sort of Miata with teeth from a high-strung, high-powered two-liter four. In some ways this was a love-it-or-hate-it choice of powerplant; if you like keeping the tach up you’ll be enamored with the S2000. On the other hand, fans of instant torque below a few thousand revs will want to look elsewhere.
At the same time, Nissan’s V6s were the polar opposite of Honda motors but still always jewels. I really enjoyed the VG six in our family’s car, but I probably would have enjoyed it even more if it wasn’t in the big, heavy Z32 2+2 that we needed to be big enough to carry all of our shit around.
The S2000 might be the perfect, lighter-weight machine to house a later version of this powerplant like VQ35DE. We’ll give it a more aggressive nose, bigger tires and call it the S3500.
Here’s an animation to show the subtle changes. Hood vents might be a bit much, but I loved those on our S30 Z (especially the few times when it overheated steam blew out of them). Maybe we could make a Nissan version as well just like Subaru and Toyota do with the FR-S and BRZ twins.
Honda fans might cry foul, but one could see this alliance creating a car that would be accessible to the performance tastes of more people and still not step on the toes of Z cars or the original version of Honda’s roadster.
Nissan Jura
The late, much-lamented Honda Element is a difficult product to categorize, and a very polarizing one. Some found it purposeful looking, others saw it as cute, while a few called it flat-out ugly, Regardless, it looked a bit like an off-road machine but was in fact very car-like, which made it quite appealing to many who didn’t need that kind of capability.
Still, it might have been nice to take this cool, boxy, utilitarian vehicle overlanding. Honda really didn’t have any heavy-duty Jeep-like chassis machines in their lineup to slip under the Element, but a Nissan collaboration sure could have provided a solution.
How about chassis components from a Pathfinder or Xterra? I sort of cringe at the idea of putting more agricultural bits into what was a great crossover, but I do wonder if such capabilities might have raised its exposure and acceptance. Big tires and a lift would make it look sort of cartoonish, which is great in my book. Let’s face it: off-roaders are often judged differently on aesthetics than cars, so with trail-rated mechanicals maybe more people would have seen the charms of this great design.
The changes are pretty minor but they make it look even more like a happy puppy dog:
There are plenty more ideas out there. A Nissan Juke with a VTEC engine? What if Nissan had provided V6s when Honda was making the legendary flip-up headlight Accord? What Nissan/Honda mashups would like to have seen in the past? What combinations from today’s offerings would you like to see, and what about future products? Let’s hear from you!
image credits: Nissan, Honda
The last thing Honda needs is Nissan and Altima energy
If the Civic and Sentra were forced onto the same platform starting in the early ’80s would their wagons still have been as eccentric as they were? Surely not since they pushed the boundaries of wagondom in opposite directions, the Civic tall and boxy, the Sentra about as fastbacked as a wagon could be before becoming a 5-door liftback?
I like to imagine that in this world, the Juke never happened.
It was a Fit with a bodykit.
If nothing else, I am here for the NSX/Mid4 mashup. I love it.
And I know we love pop-up lamps around here, but the headlights from the Z32 era 300ZX would look great on it as well.
Tried it, but the damn Lamborghini of the era used those actual lights so it kind of spoiled that idea!
Oh damn, that’s right! I should’ve remembered too because I saw a lovely yellow Diablo on the freeway this past Sunday.
I really like Honda’s V6 engines, better than my experiences with Nissan V6s. Honda power in the Z, please.
Oooh. That would be lovely and sound very good.
Makes me think of the favorite collaboration vehicle I’ve owned. The Pontiac Vibe. That car was amazing for a dude in his late 20s. So freaking functional. Those lay down rear seats with the hard plastic backs. You could fit a huge amount of stuff back there. Great for moving between apartments. Good ground clearance for camping adventures. And it was a comfortable ride for 4 people. Also an excellent car for a couple with one or two kids. I miss you Vibester! More collaborations! Also give me that Element collab right now! Take my money please!
and more interesting looking than the Toyota twin!
The NSX was transverse, so lobbing a V8 in there would have made it wider, not longer.
Unless you slapped it in longitudinally, in which case it would have needed a much longer wheelbase and you’d have lost a lot of the trunk space because the end of the transaxle would be where the exhaust system was. They were so proud of the trunk space.
What they should have done is used Nissan’s RB26 straight six, longitudinally, and just savaged the rest of the car to make it work. It’s worse packaging than a V8, but straight sixes are the best, and the middle of the car is where engines should be.
RB26 was my first thought too.
I did stretch the wheelbase slightly if you look at the animation. If you put a straight six it, though, you’d need to stretch the wheelbase even more than with a V8, right?
God yes, a longitudinal straight six needs a wheelbase that would also take a V12.
Which is why only one company ever has gone to all the effort of designing a mid-engined car that has has enough room for a straight six and then not just plopped a V12 there instead.
I’m assuming here that we’re talking multiples of a standardish 500cc cylinder. Then you’re looking at about 90mm of engine length (and therefore chassis length) every time you add an extra cylinder (or pair if it’s a V).
I’m thinking the other direction, that Honda’s small efficient engine prowess would have made for an interesting Leaf sub-brand. Leaf body and electronics and UX, but the choice of BEV, hybrid, or even just a 1.0 liter ICE.
Bring back the Element please. That is all.
While it’s a fun thought exercise to speculate about what we might have gained from an earlier merger, I think we’re better off, because we would’ve lost more interesting, diverse cars than we gained, I think.
Let’s take the early 90’s. Japan”s economy has been red hot for a decade, and every automaker had cash to burn. And I was a kid who loved cars and was almost old enough to drive.
If the two companies had merged in the 80’s, yeah, we might’ve gotten a V6 in the Accord a lot sooner, but would, for example, the investment Project 901–that resulted in the Z32 300ZX, the first Sentra SE-R, and the “4DSC” Maxima that was a shot directly across the Accord’s bow–have been undertaken if Nissan were Honda’s little brother? That was a moonshot by Nissan to try to make the best damned cars in the world. And they were great.
But the contemporaneous Accord was a great car in its own right. The first and second generation CRXs are rightly legendary, and the Civic Si has been a great driver’s car for as long as it’s existed. But those cars are all uniquely Honda, and represent a different vision and direction.
I’d hate to live in a world in which the early 90’s Maxima and Accord were badge-engineered platform-mates of one another, with each car’s unique features muddled together. I grew up in a small community in the Midwest. Everyone drove domestics–almost. A classmate’s mom got a new ’91 Maxima, and there was a rich kid with a manual Accord Coupe.
As a kid who’d grown up in domestics of the 80’s, each one of those cars was a revelation! But each one took a different approach–the Nissan stiffer, more stylish, pushed along with a growl and a wave of torque from its V6.
The Honda, though, felt precise and deliberate. The little four cylinder that my SBC-loving stepfather said “sounded like a seeing machine” and “couldn’t pull a greasy string out of a dog’s ass”* was fascinating to me. It’s difficult to describe how smooth and mechanically precise it sounded and felt–as if it could rev as high as a Formula 1 car–to my ears that had grown up with Chrysler 2.2s and Iron Dukes as a notion of what four cylinder engines were.
And, to move away from mainstream cars and on to halo cars for a moment, there would’ve been no reason for investing in the development of both the Skyline GT-R *and* the NSX, just to have them beat each other up in GT500. One of those heroes would’ve likely died an early death. Take those two plus the Z32. Put ’em in a blender and you get one sports car. Might it have been great? Maybe, but I’d rather have the choice.
Even now we’ll lose *some* interesting cars. The next generation Frontier will be a Ridgeline on beefier tires, and the Z will die (and probably rightly so). Actually, I guess that’s about it.
The mainstream cars and crossovers will all move to shared platforms, a blow softened by the fact that Nissan ceased making interesting mainstream cars some time ago.
So, nope, I’m glad it didn’t happen sooner.
*Still my favorite euphemism for an engine lacking in torque, BTW.
*Still my favorite euphemism for an engine lacking in torque, BTW.
Did you ever ask him just how he knew the amount of effort it took to pull a greasy string out of a dog’s ass?
I’ll just say it: even BIGGER Altima energy when the V-Tech kicks in, yo!!
No.
I really dig the Element on the Xterra running gear!
Not to mention how the round Xterra lights seem to work too! I was surprised.
It totally does! Somebody should build that for real!
Oddly, that was my least favorite mashup that Bishop did. Then as I looked back at the photos while writing this response, trying to articulate why I didn’t like it, the thing began to grow on me and now I sort of want one!
I’m a huge Element fan so I felt the same way, but after I looked at it a while this silliness of it was sort of endearing! However, I’d still want the more car-like drivetrain.
Some friends of mine had an ’08(?) fwd Element that they bought new and traded in last year. I wish I had known they were going to do that, or I would have tried to buy it off of them.
As always, Bishop, you do fine work and it is greatly appreciated!
If Nissan and Honda had been merged in the 90s, there would never have been a Nissan V8 in a Honda. Simply not have happened due to Honda’s resistance to such a motor.
Because both MID4 concepts were built around the 3L V6.
Look at the 1987 MID4-II concept – That one is styled much more like the NSX than the first one anyway. The Honda would have likely leaned in towards the Nissan design rather than the other way around.
And black wheels? That’s a 2000’s thing.
Wheels would have been flat or sculpted aero disks like those on both MID4 concepts.
As far as the S2000?
I’d venture that Nissan would have simply gotten a hardtop version called the Z – not a bloated V6.
Because remember: Both of these have to be sold in Japan, where there are major tax penaltes against high-displacement cars.
The black wheels are actually (honest to God) taken off the 1990 Honda Formula 1 car! You’re right about the smooth wheels but I just couldn’t take the look.
The tax law thing was real but remember that they did sell V8 Lexus and Infiniti here in the US; they had no problem making cars specifically for other markets.
Yes – the V8s of the 90s’ were sold in Japan in very small numbers – as those cars were primarily intended for the US market.
The Japanese supercars of the 90s’ were all 6s (with the exception of Mazda) – nobody was doing V8s. Between the high taxation and the Japanese horsepower upper limit of 276 of the times – a V8 was completely pointless, and engineering two powertrains for the same limited production car would have been too costly.
276 was kinda rare then. Also things like a dohc v8 could be rated at a lower rpm. So instead of making 300hp at 7,000 rpm according to marketing, it makes 275 at 5,250rpm. Exact same engine, marketing different.
I thought they were only sold in things like the President which were used to drive around the top of the top executives (who would never actually drive one themselves).
True –
There was the Nissan President (JDM Infiniti Q45 with a grille)
Toyota Celsior (JDM Lexus LS400) as well as the Toyota Soarer (which was more commonly sold in Japan with the inline 6)
Toyota Century (Still a V8 back then)
That was it for the JDM market V8s in the 90s unless you wanted to buy foreign.
When I lived outside Tokyo in the early 90’s, these were the cars I’d see lined up at the golf courses and in the valet lot for the very high-end supermarket with imported foods in Ebisu.
I think I like that Nissan MID4 Twin Turbo more than the NSX. Does it have a sloped hatch like the Lotus Esprit, or the flying buttresses like the original Nissan design/Ferrari 308?
I added “sail panels” or flying buttress. The hatch never looked right to me, or too much like a lower level hatchback. Honestly, I never thought the NSX was a beautiful car.
manifesting a new 240z with the K24
iDX with a k24.
Z’s are way too heavy now.