There’s a critical lack of cheap new cars that are proud to be inexpensive these days. Everything’s aspirational, soft-touch, and as a result, expensive. However, as subcompact cars continue to disappear in America, they’re having a resurgence in Europe. Some 36 years after the original completed its illustrious 42-year lifespan, the Citroën 2CV is coming back.
Even though the original Citroën 2CV only made about 29 horsepower at most and was known for seemingly infinite body roll, it holds a special place in my heart. Designed with the brief of serving as an umbrella on four wheels and with a mission of cheap running costs and excellent ride comfort, it survived war and rationing and a near-decade-long delay to become a legend of post-war motoring. With its flip-up windows, canvas roof, and garden furniture seats, the 2CV was a tremendous expression of utilitarianism. This cheap, originally corrugated machine did exactly what it said on the tin, helped put France on wheels, and became a style icon in its own right.
Perhaps best of all, despite being bathed in austerity, the 2CV was still weird. It had an air-cooled engine at the front, a shifter that came out of the dashboard, and just three nuts holding on each wheel. Its interlinked suspension was genius, with horizontal coil springs connecting the leading and trailing arms on each side to offer a sort of fore-and-aft anti-pitch function. The van variant looked like it had reversed into a shed, the four-wheel-drive variant simply bunged another engine in the back, it was all so much charm in an affordable package. Jason owns one and I totally see why.
Today, Citroën isn’t as weird as it used to be. The marque hasn’t produced a grand hydropneumatically-suspended sedan in more than 13 years, and the funky door ding-mitigating air bumps on older models like the C4 Cactus have disappeared from the range. The Ami quadricycle still flies the flag, but for those who want more than eight horsepower or a top speed above 25 MPH, Citroën doesn’t make anything else that lets its freak flag fly. That’s about to change with the new 2CV.
Although all we have is a dim teaser photo, the resemblance is undeniable. From the proud round headlamps to the silhouette to the fenders, this is a modern interpretation of a 2CV and it seems to be doing things right. I mean, just look at the giant Citroën emblem on the nose, an unmistakable nod to early 2CV models. However, while the original 2CV featured an air-cooled flat-twin, the new 2CV is going electric.
[Editor’s Note: I’m so excited about this. I think what makes me most excited is that, unlike other recent rebirths of iconic old cars, like Volkswagen’s ID.Buzz, this new 2CV is keeping to the original mission of the car: cheap, basic, usable transportation. It’s hard to see what’s going on in this teaser, but I like generally what I see. It does look like that rear wheel is no longer skirted? You’d think in an EV you’d want that. I can’t wait to learn more. – JT]
Understandably, you can expect modest specifications from the new 2CV. While Citroën hasn’t said what range, maximum DC fast charging kW, or horsepower will be, it’s given the world the most important figure: The expected price. We’re talking an electric car built in Europe with a target price under €15,000. That’s under $17,500 at current conversion rates, and that’s including value added tax. Best of all, we won’t have to wait long to see what the new 2CV looks like. If everything goes according to plan, expect a reveal this October at the Paris Motor Show. Oh yeah, this is looking good.
Top graphic image: Citroën, Jason Torchinsky
It’s a shame we’ll never see it here in Amerika. We need something like this in the worst way.
We will see it it keeps to the original mission : getting a pair of farmers in front seats with a bucket of freshly laid eggs (on the back seat) through a freshly plowed field without cracking any egg.
At the time the speed was not an issue and honestly, for what french people consider asking to a 2CV… speed doesn’t matter… as long as you get there… eventually.
But I’m still worried that it’s going to be an overweight, enlarged (’cause EU requirements) useless revival….
The 2CV-Modern needs to be light, adaptable and unhindered by multiple airbags, lane warnings, anti skid, automatic emergency braking, traction control and more useless stuff (I will agree with driver airbag and ABS, the rest is fluff or dangerous in most cases. )
Obviously it’s an electric car… But it doesn’t need all the above shit as, at first it’s going to be a car dedicated to city driving. ( and even if/when it goes wild, if built like a 2CV irt doesn’t need the above useless sht, it’s a 2CV.(Modern) )
The wistful sighs that can be heard coming from my house as I read this are many and emotive.
How much does it cost for 2 2CV boots?
Torch: “I need 2 CV boots.”
“Sure, make and model?”
“Yes.”
That was one of the funniest COTD’s, along w/ this:
“Do you have International experience?
Tim Walz: “Yes!”
https://www.theautopian.com/the-hilarity-of-trying-to-get-parts-for-your-oddball-car-cotd/
I just want to see strippers again. Is that too much to ask?
To clarify, I mean basic, no-frills cars, not people dancing lasciviously and with somewhat less than the usual amount of clothing.
Oh, I thought you were talking about paint removal specialists.
Believe it or not, I have a story about that.
In the wee small days of the internet, a coworker (we both work in facility maintenance) advised me of a highly viscous paint removing chemical he had seen but couldn’t remember the name; he suggested I look it up online, it should be easy to find.
That was the day I learned not to just throw trades-related jargon all willy-nilly onto the interwebs and expect it to know what I want. “Thick stripper,” as it turns out, has meanings not related to facilities maintenance.
Adding “clings to walls” didn’t help much.
That was an interesting meeting with IT. In a religious-based facility.
My story was about having a mechanic bring me a piece of All Thread that was stamped BD and ask what it was. So I went to Google and searched for “BD Stud.” I lost internet access at work for a week.
Okay, three things.
Two things can be true.
I live in France and this is clearly a response to the success of the new Renault 5 and 4 electrics. They are really well done and I hope Stellantis can do this as well as Renault has done theirs. At 15K, it sounds more like a city car than response to the 5.
Yeah, that sounds more like a Topolino. But Citroen already has the Ami, so who knows?
This is what I asked for in yesterday’s Chrysler article!
“Electric reborn” screams so much YT AI BS. If I see on in the street, I’ll be interested then
If it’s cheap enough and stumbles it’s way into Canada, there’s my commuter car.
I dunno, I hope they do a good job of it, but, I hope it has decent range. As much as I love the new Twingo, that only has a measly 262kms of range (less if we’re talking real-world range). That’s barely enough to let me go on a full charge from my town to the major city a little over an hour away and back without recharging somewhere in the middle, and the charging infrastructure here is woeful 🙁 …I could do that trip 3 times over in my current car without filling up.
That is the reason why I got a Clio Hybrid instead of a 5. With a real world range of 250km or so it is not enough.
Let’s have some common sense. Call it the 2EV or 3AA don’t just copy it. Looks like a Fiat 500 in the picture and if it comes in at the suggested price I will offer to eat one. However it does appear to fit the original 2CV in its most basic form not safe but secure as it is so pitiful no one will steal one. Taking that title from ID3
What I want it to have:
Air cooled drivetrain, but lubricating oil cooled would be acceptable (as basically every automotive air cooled engine was effectively oil cooled, hence basically every one of them having an external oil cooler.
Very softly sprung suspension
Soft top with hard top optional
Manual windows of some sort.
Available in the US.
Besides the last bit I think the rest are pretty easily done
No way it passes US NITSA regulations
No way it passes EU Emissions regs.
Er, it’s going to be an EV right? Surely even the brilliant minds in Brussels can’t find a way to fail an electron burner for emissions, right? Right? Oh god…
I was referring to MrLm002’s air cooled engine but did the EU fail an EV for emissions? Was it on fire or something?
Air cooled drivetrain is what I said. Since it’s a BEV the drivetrain is electric, therefore no traditional emissions.
Brake dust and tire microplastics are still a thing, but luckily the EU hasn’t started regulating that.
That makes me wonder what brake wear is like on an EV, if it has regenerative braking. Far less brake dust, or about the same overall, since EVs are usually much heavier..?
Far less brake wear, and thus presumably brake dust. In most situations, the friction brakes are only used under ~5mph. Even in max braking scenarios, the regen braking takes more load off the friction brakes than the extra weight adds.
Being Stellantis I am sure it will be a decontented piece of shit and a total affront to the original.
How do you de-content a 2CV?
I figure the screw ups will be the opposite direction. We all want a 2CV with a 102″ screen up front, a dial shifter, power windows, heated and cooled messaging seats don’t we? Especially if we can get it in any color we want other than Blue, which will not be available… per Stellantis Logic.
Easy, give it crude engineering solutions. The 2CV was simple, yes, but amazingly clever on the mechanical side.
For example it had a 4 speed gearbox when 3 speeds were very common. And of course there’s the amazing suspension, rack and pinion steering, radial tyres, front wheel drive.
I am sure the new car will be just a conventional Stellantis product with a retro body.
Got your finger on the pulse of the moron car manufacturers. Not just Stellantis as can be seen by the $60,000 remake of the VW Van.
Well, the Mehari might count. Although it did have the big .6 liter engine.
“That’s under $17,500 at current conversion rates, and that’s including value added tax.”
Which country? Or better, what VAT and tax rates? Really, what is the price before any tax, so I can estimate the price in my country.
Particularly since I live in a state with no sales tax. I mean, there’s a document fee when you register it, but, theoretically, if you bought a car just to display in your living room and never put a license plate on it, you’d pay nothing
Agreed I am often disappointed in the fact economics and financial information is not even considered on this most excellent site.
“Nouveau Chevaux”
“Deux Chevaux, Part Deux”
Non-jokingly, I think 2CV2 would have been a model name for this. It could have lent itself to some kind of graphic thing.
They probably pick up Charlie Sheen affordably for a commercial or two.
Deja Deux
I sure hope they offer a sub-base spec with minimal instrumentation, power nothing, and no insulation or sound-deadening.
Why would you want such a thing?
Also, being an EV, power nothing = nothing powering the wheels either?
I guess Fjord is looking for a Flintstones car?
Cheaper, less to go wrong, less weight…
Having delt with 1950/60’s era British sports cars I can assure you there’s still PLENTY that can go wrong on even that simple of a car.
But don’t forget, this is a French car, so it will go wrong in ways that you cannot expect!
I though that only happened with Spanish cars…or maybe it was Inquisitions, I forget which.
No one expected that though.
While the parts cost may nominally be cheaper, the cost of the extra supply chain management/SKU inflation from the unique parts may actually make the removal of some features more expensive overall (such as the parts bin digital gauge cluster vs a set of analog dials, or crank windows when the supply chain for those may have ended by now). Stuff like sound deadening and wheels should be an easy change, though.
To honour the original of course. I had a ’58 2CV that didn’t even have a fuel gauge (unless you count the dipstick as a fuel gauge)
If you can live with that, I guess go for it?
Will never ever ever happen. I think people’s standards are different today, and that would be acceptable to nearly no one, and not worth building. Unless the mental landscape is like “we are a nation that has just had our foreign occupiers driven off, and we have nearly nothing and 10% of our family is dead from the war,” it’s not feasible.
So this brings the number of retro cars that fulfill the original’s mission up to two, unless I’m missing something. The Beetle and Mini were/are more of a fashion statement than cheap and cheerful transportation. Fiat got it right with the 500, for a while it was one of the cheapest cars you could buy in the US. Although I suspect that whatever it was based on was the cheaper option in Europe.
Yeah, the new 500 really did get the formula right, and it kept a lot of style and character, too, to the point where people who could afford ostensibly better cars still bought them because they liked them. It was cheap, but it didnt rely exclusively on cheapness to sell.
Stellantis also built the thing damn near forever, production started in Poland in 2007 and finally wrapped up in Algeria just last year
They got the 500 right from a marketing POV. From a practicality POV, no. It is a Panda with the practicality (interior volume) reduced. Same as the Golf->Bug, Fiesta(?)->Ka, … I think none of the retro cars work other than as fashion accessories. I would have bought a Panda, but a smaller more expensive 500? No.
Exactly. The 500 is just a fashion statement. The Panda is a lot truer to the original Nuova 500 that the 500.
Ah yes, I was looking at it from a US perspective. Now I’m thinking about it I remember hearing something similar when it came out in Europe, it was a more expensive, less practical Panda.
I’m guessing they sold much better than the Panda though, because I see 500’s everywhere, but rarely a Panda (in the UK).
(ETA as I type this, there’s two 500’s on the road outside, one in that horrible beige colour Fiat seem to like)
Wait and see if it meets the requirements
Jury’s still out on whether this 2CV revival measures up, but I would say the Mini does the trick since it’s revival was the Mini Cooper, a more performance-focused variant of the cheap and cheerful Mini. Plus, the Euro market has always gotten a very basic, low-power version that has been more or less competitor to the revived 500. In the U.S. the Mini is marketed much differently because we apparently do not want to buy tiny, cheap cars (see: Fiat 500 sales trends in U.S.).
I’ll agree with you on the Beetle, since it really was a worse Golf. Though the Beetle convertible was better than the Eos.
I could be wrong, but for me, the 500 is a no go because the back seat is nearly unusable. It seems the original 500 was practical, but the new one was dressed to look the part, but dropped the ball on packaging. The Inster seems more like what a small, practical vehicle should be, IMO.
Time for a condo or apartment in France.
This will most probably be rubbish.
The 5 and Twingo though…
Better off living in the CV2.
How about a nice Troglodyte cave? There’s plenty to choose from:
“The Loire Valley alone boasts 14,000 inhabitable, albeit mostly abandoned spaces today, but, up until the early 20th century, “troglo” homes were widely inhabited in France.”
https://www.messynessychic.com/2018/05/08/if-the-flinstones-vacationed-in-france-a-guide-to-the-cave-villages/
Chinese can sell a panda car for $5.5k. Sell a modern 2cv at about 3x why not. Good to see. LFP is cheap enough they should be able to get around 25-30kwh. But I have a feeling it will be less. Maybe 13 to 21 kwh.
Another speculative future Stellantis vehicle article, but finally for something that’s (of course) both interesting and likely unobtainable for the next 25 years to us Americans.
Curious if a 25 year old EV will even be a thing.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
Cars becoming increasingly complicated, connected and disposable coupled with battery degradation, electrical fire risk and the tendency to just brick.
Maybe that problem won’t be an issue for cars made in 2050. But for any EV made in the past 15 years, it is.
A 25 years old car that doesn’t run and can’t be repaired? And you complain about the age of Stellantis updates? Think about it every thing is 25 years old and a new battery won’t be available because technology has changed. And really no EV is going to have collection value except for museums.
You don’t have that zoom zoom zoom in the vroom vroom vroom. Just the sound of your mom’s old Kirby Vacuum Cleaner. Waàaaaaaaaaaaaa
I think it could be like the retro electronic people. With enough known fixes / component swaps. Maybe. The high nickel batteries show ok signs now and LFP suppose to be better, sodium even longer.
But 3rd party pack remans are starting to be a thing. Plus there are some specialists rebuilding and repowering vehicles and packs if they cant source a good one. Much like what happened with hybrid batteries. Prius and insights are running around after 25 years with new or rebuilt batteries.
I think the issue will be more software, but I wonder if someone will come up with a way to completely replace OEM software that’s no longer supported/intentionally hobbled. Potential liability for safety aside, it’s not an emissions concern. The ultimate consideration would be if the cost was worth it. Are people going to care enough to spend the money like with older cars that had personality and required the driver to connect to them in operation and even minor maintenance (Ikea effect) or will these isolated, “safety”-obsessed, nanny-nagging blobs that will require all kinds of specialized skills to repair going to be given the consideration of old smart phones? There’s a limited market for people who like old electronics and cars are an order of magnitude more expensive, complicated, and space-taking.
For sure, it might be coming up with newer hardware running different with more curent software that is compatible too. Or mixing various firmwares to find the best for stability and performance like they did with the karma. A buggy laggy almost non functional touch screen / mcu in a tesla can make the thing almost undrivable. The Chinese have gotten pretty good with aftermarket devices that tie in to the cars networks or can buses. There are also projects like comma ai that have added hardware to interface with the various networks and sensors in various cars. The things going on at FOA with the ocean is interesting too. They were able to get ahold of most of what they needed. But for most models the software will probably have to either reverse engineered or re written and flashed hopefully they just open source it. That could be an uphill battle with a company thats still in business. Alot of the older electric cars people are installing more modern controllers and of course battery cells. That could be thing I suppose. Or like the leafs where you can with a modifications install a gen 2 battery in a gen 1.
Another reason I’m against displays and features that are only usable through them. While that probably won’t be too difficult to replace with generic, the specially shaped and formed displays on many cars now might present a hurdle for aesthetic integration. I wonder if there could even be standalone kits that could be used to replace factory ECUs. EVs aren’t nearly as variable as ICE in types and throughout operation (though I’m likely still underestimating this), so I wonder if parameters could be sent to a company offering these services and they could send preprogrammed computers that are essentially plug and play, much like performance base tunes on ICE cars, but perhaps without much need for additional tuning. I’m trying to be more positive.
The Chinese have been making OEM look and connection / function head units and displays with modern software on them for a good 15 years maybe longer. So I don’t think it will be much of problem especially for a higher volume car. With 3d scanning and printing it’s alot easier to make molds or produce in low volumes as well. There has been talk of a 3rd party Tesla mcu coming out of China. I wouldn’t be shocked to see one soon. The components themselves are nothing special is just basically an industrial PC with a touch screen. Now they are getting into their own designed chips but others are using commercially available chips. You don’t really need a ton of power if you aren’t trying to have a high level adas. But as long as comma ai doesn’t loose support for vehicles or there is another solution like that you can bring a modern level experience into your vehicle. In theory that could be built into the mcu or whatever you are calling it because it’s open source. Or a different model could be loaded. Chinese companies and suppliers aren’t like western with the gatekeeping. They don’t care if you want to buy something they are happy to sell it. Alot of times they will work with you to modify a product with a very low minimum quantity.
Let’s ask Jason as the king of the outdated electronic play systems. Except your 25 years old EVs will be the same as your old electric train you set up for Christmas after 25 years.
And yes you will be just as cool as the old dude with electric train set ups in his basement. Maybe they can adapt the train whistle to sound like a 2CV horn
I see all the kids with the ebikes learning to mod them and researching them. I can’t help but think the old evs will be the new hot rods. They are already performance oriented. Maybe they will take components from a newer vehicles and put them on older with some kind of middleware or hardware. So many people have put together cap kits or other kits for common failures for the vintage electronics. Or if you go into industrial automation where alot of these systems are born you replace some plcs a screen program them to do the same thing with the new system and it’s like a new system. With the amost constant cost decreases and performance improvements to micro controllers that could be part of it too. The aftermarket has already made some fixes for some common bev issues like the coolant bypass in the Tesla RDUs.
People didn’t believe there would be a ricer or jdm scene to take over from hot rodders in the early to mid 90s either. If you look at something like crx. It was sort of a fuel efficient car people bought to commute in then in the early 2000s had an awaking as some kind of ricer. So many other examples of everyday cars. I don’t think anyone saw the current VQ situation when they they first came out. How many people that bought 55 Chevy’s or 32 fords new or had them as a cheap used car a few years after thought they would be classics and things done to them that has been done to them. The same with vintage macs. My dad had a shed full of them sold them like hotcakes on marketplace. 20 to 30 years ago when they were new no one thought that would be a thing. No one thought of any of the vintage game systems would be like this when they were new. But it all happened.
It will most probably be a decontented pile of rubbish based on a platform from a developing market and a price to match proper cars.
Damn sure its gone come with cost-saving capactive buttons and a “hidden” rear door handle
Buttons?
For what?
It’s unlikely to have a heater, much less a radio…
You’ll at least need a button to squirt water for the windshield vipers, one for the choke and a button to tilt the headlights
yes, those vipers will definately get thirsty protecting your ride! Genuis french security system.
But will the new one pass the egg test?
I’m really excited to see what they’ve been cooking as well. Citroen has been pretty bland this past decade, especially here in Brazil.
Probably more blandness wrapped in a retro body.
Whoa whoa whoa. Hundy, my man, I know he stepped in for a little editorial comment, but discussions of the 2CV is firmly in Torch’s lane. Let’s keep to our respective lanes, right?
I mean, next thing we know, Mercedes is gonna wax poetic about taillights, Uncle Adrian is gonna be going on about the newest broken bus he’s bought, and DT is gonna be inflicting his engineer quality artwork on us and insisting it’s what could have been if Plymouth hadn’t been shuttered!
Let the weirdness flow from defined, known sources!
The US legacy automakers could have been doing this in the USA, for decades. I like that Citroen has figured this out for Europe, and I think the new 2CV will be a tremendous success at that price point, much like the original. The writing is on the wall regarding the global economy and working peoples’ budgets, and it is thinking ahead like this that will allow an automaker to survive what could be some very lean times. There shouldn’t be any tax-funded bailouts for those automakers who deliberately choose not to make EVs which working people can actually afford without some monstrous payment plan.
It’s Stellantis. They are selling a C3 which is a car from a developping market for proper car money. I am sure this will be the same just with a retro body.
Renault is doing much better, and with proper cars.