If there’s a common thread among performance EVs, it’s people bemoaning a lack of involvement. After all, when you take natural engine and gearbox character out of the equation, chassis tuning and powertrain mapping becomes critical. However, some small companies are intent on adding a bit of involvement back into low-volume converted EVs with the reappearance of manual transmissions. This is the Frontline Cars MG Bee, an electric MGB with a difference.
Upon first glance, it’s hard to pick this classic British sports car out as an electric conversion. You won’t find uncharacteristically modern projector headlamps, gaudy big wheels, or even a hint that this classic British sports car can be plugged into the mains just by looking at the exterior. To the untrained eye, this is the MGB as we’ve always known it, just with a few subtle aesthetic tweaks. I’m a huge fan of the chin spoiler, and the steel-look knockoff wheels are the absolute business. However, look a bit harder and you’ll notice the lack of a tailpipe, the subtle black ring behind the old-school filler cap, and a seemingly uncomplicated underbody. How delightfully subtle.
Here’s something else that’s cool: The MG Bee revs to 9,000 RPM. While that would be astonishingly high for a combustion-powered car, it’s fairly low for an electric motor. The upside to this is that multiple gears suddenly become useful, and Frontline Cars has made the most of this by fitting the MG Bee with a Mazda-derived five-speed manual gearbox. While there are a few differences in manual gearbox operation in an electric vehicle compared to in a combustion-powered vehicle — stalling at the lights shouldn’t be an issue, and drivers should theoretically be able to take off in any gear — you should still be able to heel-toe and row up the gears as you would in a combustion-powered classic. Although this certainly isn’t the fastest way to get around, it sounds like heaps of fun.
Diving deeper into the powertrain, the MG Bee sports a Hyper 9 electric motor that pumps out 114 horsepower and 162 lb.-ft. of torque, not far off of most combustion-powered economy cars. However, thanks in part to a reasonable 40 kWh battery, the whole package is surprisingly light, clocking in at a reasonable 2,617 pounds. While 22.95 pounds per horsepower isn’t an outstanding number, it isn’t far off of a stock car’s 21.4 pounds per horsepower. Moreover, outstanding torque contributes to a claimed zero-to-62 mph time of 8.8 seconds, so the MG Bee should go down the road alright.
So what are the downsides? Well, the MG Bee doesn’t have DC fast charging capability, so it won’t be the best road trip machine. Level 2 charging is limited to a fairly slow seven kilowatts, and Frontline Cars quotes an ideal zero-to-100 percent charging time of five hours. Range isn’t phenomenal either. Figure 140 miles on the optimistic WLTP cycle. Then there’s a matter of cost — Frontline Cars hasn’t released pricing on the MG Bee, but it’s safe to assume that a conversion this comprehensive won’t be cheap.
However, for a select few, the Frontline MG Bee will represent the pinnacle of green weekend motoring. Classic looks, clean power, and a little bit of unexpected involvement. If you’re at Bicester Heritage on Oct. 9, you’ll be able to see it in person. Oh, and if electrified classics aren’t your jam, don’t worry — Frontline Cars is still happy to stuff a V8 in an MGB for you.
(Photo credits: Frontline Cars)
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The question this raises for me is whether they intentionally hamstrung the electric motor to have an excuse to include a transmission. I desperately want this to be a thing, but I don’t know how I feel about spec’ing a weak motor to justify it.
That’s not me being passive-aggressive either. I actually don’t know how I feel about this. On the one hand, modern manuals are generally a bit slower than their auto counterparts and that doesn’t bother me one bit, but at least they’re still working with the same power. Am I okay with the manual being drastically slower because it has far less power to work with? I might be, but I’m gonna need some time to get used to the idea.
My Triumph GT6 EV conversion retains the manual transmission.
It can also peel out in top gear at a stop, and wants to go sideways. I need a limited slip differential. I retained the transmission because I have a series-wound DC motor with a low continuous power rating. Peak horsepower and torque are roughly 120 and 120 lb-ft, but it makes that torque at 0 rpm, and makes that horsepower from roughly 5,200 rpm and slightly tapering downward to its 8,000 rpm redline, at least according to calculation. It has not yet been dyno’d. The car weighs slightly less as an EV than it does stock with an ICE.
Whenever I upgrade to a Tesla system, I will be able to delete the transmission and save more weight, while improving performance.
You are living one of my daydreams! Back in the 90s I helped my brother partially restored a GT6 before he ran out of money and decided to sell it off. Sometimes when my mind wanders, it goes to considering how much fun that GT6 would have been with an EV conversion. I like your style.
As an MGB owner who will eventually convert to electric, and I’d gladly subscribe to your newsletter/YouTube/carrier pigeon to see how you did it and the choices you made.
Does not the thought of a British all-electric car terrify you? It does me. Especially if the electrical components come from Lucas.
Lucas, the Prince of Darkness…
oh this would be perfect for me…I don’t commute, but I’d really love a daily runabout for errands around town or a quick swing into wine country…great complement to my slow and thirsty GX.
Holy cow, I love this thing. I think I’m going to stop being on the internet for a while, so nothing spoils this!
Two points
1. I love it and depending on the lottery will buy it.
2. The range of this is not important in regards to long cruising. You don’t want to cruise the ICE MGBGT either. Unless you want to reenact a hostage in the trunk situation.
I can tell you from experience with daily driving an Austin Healey Sprite, 30 minutes is plenty of time in one at any one stint.
I absolutely love this an it is basically what I am looking for in an electric car. Smallish electric motor, 5 speed manual in a lightweight car with a useable range. I really want Mini or Jeep to do this, I think they both have the fun factor to pull this off.
Darn straight
Better done than most, but I still don’t get the appeal of these conversions. The amount an MG will get driven is so low that its emissions with a gas engine are a drop in the global bucket, and while I’ve read MG engines are nothing special I still can’t help but think this strips the car of a lot of its personality and for little point. Worse yet-the best is certainly yet to come with EVs and thus EV conversions and I think these early ones are really gonna look even more like pointless butchery in the future. (I am open to changing my mind in the unlikely instance I actually get a chance to drive one 🙂
Have a converted Karmann Ghia. It doesn’t drip oil. Always starts. Doesn’t smell up the garage. Was fun to do with my kids. I enjoy it
I would love to know more!
Agree with 86TVan: tell us more!
Gladly, I am 64 and have owned lots of VWs. From bugs to diesel Westys. Appreciate the designed in simplicity so when I went into this it was for fun. It is an on going project as I am making changes. First the batteries replaced the rear seat. Now they are behind the rear seat. You cannot tell it is a conversion from looking in the cabin or frunk. Still working on suspension and weight distribution.
Driving it is odd. You do not need to push in the clutch when you stop. Takes some getting used to. You turn the key and go. It is not like an ev because no computers need to boot up. It just goes. I do like the sound of an air cooled VW, especially with the pea shooters. But it really is nice having the quiet. I only go on surface streets. I can go fast enough to go on the freeway but enjoy putting along.
If I was to pick a car to do it again I would choose a convertible corvair. Same basic layout which works great with a bit more room.
Sweet! I’m jealous-and props to you for actually doing it as I tend to dream but not realize it. Definitely post pics when that becomes an option.
-thanks for expanding
For me the big appeal of an EV-converted classic is the convenience and usability.
There are no shortage of jokes about the reliability of old cars (old British cars in particular) and I’m not a shade tree mechanic, so I don’t want my weekend fun drives to be spent doing roadside repairs, or worse doing essential maintenance instead of even going for a drive.
I totally understand there are folks who love to tinker away their time repairing their cars, and I respect and admire that. However, I’m not one of those people – I just want to be able to get in and drive, and I think the level of ongoing maintenance for an EV is likely to be far less than for any ICE motor.
With that said, an EV with a real gearbox is pretty appealing – arguably the best of both worlds.
Look, I love manuals as much as the next guy. Maybe more, my car history is short since I’m only 30 but every one of them has been a manual. I enjoy the engagement it brings, honestly it’s just fun for me. But idk, EVs with manuals just don’t do it for me. I think it’s because they go out of the way to simulate an experience for a powertrain that doesn’t need it. And I imagine it would feel simulated too.
Just because EVs don’t need transmissions doesn’t mean they can’t benefit from them. Plenty of production EVs have two-speed transmissions for efficiency, and I imagine they could benefit from more than two speeds as well. I’d certainly rather drive an EV with a real manual than a simulated one.
You know, I’ve been wondering if multi-speed transmissions on EVs will become more mainstream. I don’t see them having more than a few speeds, but I’m interested to see where the tech goes with these. If the transmission was actually there for a reason (not just to simulate a manual) I could be interested.
So you’re saying that they could bring back the three-on-the-tree?
It’s a PHEV, but our BMW 330e actually shifts the 9 speed auto in EV mode. The difference in power at different gears is noticeable. I think most evs do without a transmission for simplicity.
THANK YOU! I’ve always wondered how PHEVs interact with the gearbox in EV mode – do they still change gears, do they stay in one with similar gearing to pure EVs, is the electric motor mounted after the gearbox and acts directly on the wheels…? I’ve asked several people but NOBODY in the business of selling these cars nor owners seem to have the slightest idea of what goes on under the hood.
They are all different. My Volt didn’t have a traditional transmission and essentially used the electric motor all the time (but that’s a simplified explanation because it’s much more complicated than that.). The answer is that they operate in many different ways.
A conversion is using a car designed for an ICE motor. It is different than an EV. The motor I used for a conversion is small, light and has close to the same torque as the original. A purpose built EV is designed to take full torque off the line. I can drive using only one gear but it takes forever to accelerate. I drive with second and third gears mostly.
I think an EV with a manual could make a very unique and interesting experience. I’m like you, 32 years old, have only ever purchased manuals. The trick is to not over power it, 150 hp in a smallish electric car with a 5 speed manual would allow you to really work the limited power.
Those Dunlop wheels make anything look fast & cool.
You’re right. The untrained may think it an MGB.
But to the trained they know it is an MGB GT. The roadster is just MGB.
I wonder what they do about the 100% torque at 0rpm. I worked on an electric conversion about a decade ago with a manual trans, and there was a LOT of concern that if you gave it 100% throttle at 0RPM it would shear the teeth of the gears in the trans, as they were never designed to live on that type of load.
Hopefully they have some logic in the motor controller to ramp torque up more slowly at lower motor/input shaft speeds – that’d be simplest anyway. Typically the motors like to avoid this too, since they typically require at least some shaft speed for lubrication and oil cooling the rotor, so full current at 0 speed is great for cooking them.
I would bet Peter is right. I took a powerwheels and modified it to work on Dewalt 20V batteries. Even the $12, Ebay special, motor controller I put in has a “soft start” feature where it takes about 2 seconds to ramp up to full throttle if you slam the go pedal.
Hey look, an EV conversion with the right type of headlights! No silly halos. If you want DRLs, wire up the turn signals.
Oh geez, I just realized this is Frontline Developments and the same people that made the Abingdon Edition. These things are going to be super expensive
Just stop it already. No one wants to shift a simulated manual in EVs and it’s just about the dumbest approach possible to making them more engaging. I’m going to riff on a previous comment of mine and again say that you might as well make EVs autonomous blobs with a screen in front of the driver that plays clips from the Fast franchise while giving them fake controls that change a bunch of fake noises and feedback and shit while their auto blob chauffeurs them to their destination.
Get off my lawn. And while I’m on this I’m going to say something that’s going to get me crucified…but the virulent obsession with manual transmissions in this day and age goes so far that it perplexes me. I can drive stick. I enjoy it. I’ve driven multiple manual cars. In the right applications it’s great.
And you know what? I don’t really think about the transmissions when it comes to those driving experiences and I have no idea why enthusiasts go foaming at the mouth bonkers over manuals all the time. I don’t get how manufacturers like Honda and Toyota can sell cars at above MSRP by making a manual transmission the focal point of the entire experience in 2023. Or how companies can withhold manuals intentionally as a marketing ploy, make people mad, suddenly offer them again, and sell every single manual version of that car.
And I don’t get why we’re trying to somehow reverse engineer manual transmissions into EVs…and this isn’t the only example! Toyota is literally working on a manual transmission for an EV that can somehow stall the car if you fuck up. Like…really? Is this all that driving means to people? Operating a clutch and shifter? That’s the entire experience?
It just seems silly to me, and before anyone comes for my enthusiast credentials let the record show that I literally drove hundreds of miles round trip total over multiple weekends to learn to drive stick because I wanted to. I don’t dislike manual cars at all, I just don’t understand the obsession at a certain point.
Usually you have posts that make sense and I agree with them.
This is not one of those times.
I knew you wouldn’t, but I still love you nonetheless ❤️
While I agree about the absurdity of manuals for most EV’s, the torque, power, and maximum speed numbers here seem to suggest it may actually be useful. Hard to tell without actually seeing a motor torque curve though, and its quite possible that the torque is de-rated at low motor speeds to protect the transmission & driveline, at which point it starts becoming a bit absurd again.
Most of the car-buying public agrees with you on manuals, thus the state of manual availability in new vehicles. I think what really is rancorous though is that the choice to drive manual is being eliminated in most new vehicles altogether. It makes financial sense for the automakers to do so based on sales; engineering a manual option, the parts proliferation, additional calibration, manufacturing complexity for more variants and low-volume piece costs all add cost and effort over a single variant for 95-99.99% of buyers. I guess I’m thankful that some companies still offer the option, even at additional cost, rather than just dropping it, but I’m not exactly buying new cars either so my opinion doesn’t matter on this topic.
https://opposite-lock.com/topic/84277/manual-vs-automatic-is-as-bad-as-politics
Would you enjoy a movie at the theater without Dolby Surround sound? Sure, but for many that sound impact is key to TRULY getting MOST out of the experience. Me, I hate the theater. I don’t give a damn about the bigger screen and better sound. I enjoy the convenience of pausing a movie when I want to pee and not paying out the ass for my snacks more than the experience.
Wait, preferring a complete experience over convenience? Movie theaters aren’t making any money and are shutting down all over the place. And people are complaining about it too. I could care less about it, i definitely don’t understand it, but I don’t see any reason to complain that some people are willing to accept the next best thing, a “simulated surround experience” from a sound bar under their tv instead of just accepting that TVs have speakers that work just fine.
Watching a movie at home is SO MUCH BETTER than it used to be! I’m old enough to remember tiny, low res letterbox format CRT screens (20″ was typical), tinny mono speakers, VHS and having to actually go to Blockbuster to get those new releases on 240 res VHS. The only advantages were the low costs and the pause button. The disadvantage was having to rewind the tape.
Now with thousands of titles on demand, massive high res screens, good stereo sound and your own kitchen and bathroom mere steps away its harder to justify going to the laughably priced Petri dish that is a modern movie theatre. Especially when they turn up the volume to be borderline painful.
That said a few months ago I did watch a summertime matinee of”Jaws” in a small local movie theatre with my family. Ticket prices were very reasonable.
THAT was the “theatre experience” I was looking for!
They are putting Nightmare Before Christmas back in theaters this year. I’m thinking we might go check that out. Nostalgia might be enough to motivate me to the theater.
Don’t forget to sneak in your own snacks.
“No one wants to shift a simulated manual in EVs “
YOU CALLING ME A NOBODY????
:-p
This ISN’T simulating the experience though! That’s the point! It’s a real manual transmission with an electric motor that doesn’t rev high enough for it to be unnecessary. This is the closest to an actually enjoyable analog EV you’ll ever find.
Plus, people enjoy cars for different reasons. If the manual transmission is central to some people’s enjoyment of cars, then let them have the freedom to pay whatever they think is reasonable for the experience. I don’t like it when people insist manuals are the only way to enjoy cars any more than I like people dunking on the manual-obsessed. Let people enjoy things, no matter what transmission they prefer.
How dare you propose a tolerant and moderate approach! What are you, some kind of inclusive radical?!?
Maybe. I draw the line at stanced cars and street takeover bros though, they should absolutely be gatekept from the car community and public roads. Brodozer trucks should at least have major restrictions applied as well.
I am a stickshift die hard and I agree with you as near as I can tell it’s a stupid gimmick in EVs. Manual shifting being more fun is part of a whole package, once you remove some of the other pieces of the package the whole thing starts losing its appeal. I think it’s the same reason that I’ve never gotten much out of tiptronic style manual shifted autos (and most friends I’ve talked to have said the same thing.) Once it’s not “real” why bother?
Are you arguing against the enjoyment of a manual—or just the way manufacturers tease us/over-price them? I’m talking ICE vehicles: I have no experience with BEV.
I am not diehard manual everything —everyone has different use cases. But I own 2 cars that I wouldn’t have even bought if it weren’t for the 3rd pedal, and I certainly get my serotonin fix from them. I mean, come in hot in 3rd, stomp the brake, then heel&toe while releasing the clutch in 2nd and balance that short wheelbase while the 295s out back judder & squeal & claw for traction around the curve…yeah; I mainline that shit on a deserted mountain road any time I get a safe chance. Never had an automatic elicit giggles like my manuals do—but maybe I just haven’t driven the right ones?
Plus, I can change a clutch. That X-speed slushbox is some sort of dark wizardry I do not grok
While saying ‘this EV has a manual gearbox’ sounds like an intentional selling point, the thing is that for conversions of older cars it’s often the easier option to leave the gearbox in.
With the rear axle ratios of ICE cars being suited to the RPM range of a petrol engine, connecting the electric motor directly to the driveshaft would be suboptimal performance-wise, and need either the motor squeezed into the transmission tunnel or an extra-long driveshaft.
That’s why in EV conversions the manual gearbox is often left in to provide reduction gearing, with the electric motor ending up in the ‘normal’ place in the engine bay and able to make use of existing engine mounting points.
The Carsales AU article on this car stating that ‘Frontline says drivers will delight in their ability to heel-and-toe one moment and drive the car like an automatic (in second or third gear) the next’ pretty much guarantees that it’s running a manual transmission from an existing car with the Hyper 9 motor bolted on using an adapter plate, and while the novelty of rowing your own gears exists, there wouldn’t actually be any need to go beyond second or third gear (which would provide the optimal gear ratio for the motor and car).
This design puts this car very much in line with a lot of DIY/cottage-industry builds using existing components – which isn’t a bad thing as such, but highlights that this isn’t a purpose-built EV driveline designed from scratch.
So rescue rust bucket MG carcasses are now going to go out of my price range too? :SIGH:
That would require volume. Volume is not a specialty of Frontline.
“Frontline Cars hasn’t released pricing on the MG Bee, but it’s safe to assume that a conversion this comprehensive won’t be cheap.” — probably expensive, 140 mile range, five hours recharge time.
Soooo, you could be spending multiple times more money to have just as much downtime-per-mile vs. just buying a regular MGB. Got it. ;P
[Mark Tucker, please don’t ban me!]
It’s funny, I was just thinking, great, that’s just what an MGB needs: MORE electrical stuff.
LUCAS! <screaming while head is under the dash>
Just imagine how bad British EVs would have been in the 70s and 80s with Lucas electrics. *shudders*
I am fine with classic car EVs but I’m 100% against fake. Don’t give me zoom zoom noises, simulated shift points, or a transmission just to keep my hands busy.
If connecting the electric motor through the MG transmission saves money and effort fine but installing a completely new gearbox into an EV is pointless.
“Wow! I could’ve had a V8,” say all MG Bee buyers after a few months.
Looks great, need to swap that electric drivetrain out though.. 🙂
I doubt they’ll be much cheaper than the RBW
https://rbwevcars.com/models-rbw-roadster-gt/
James May did a video on it a while back
https://youtu.be/O9yCOCufjDA
I like this. Great aesthetic choices. Pairing an electric motor with a manual transmission is not a terrible thing. My Brammo Empulse has a six-speed box hooked to the motor, and it lets the bike stay in the motor’s happy place more of the time. Electric motors do have a performance curve, even if it’s less peaky than an ICE, and it makes sense to keep them in the power or efficiency band.
It’s very cool but I’d still take the V8