There are lots of reasons why you might be looking at a luxury car. Maybe you finally got that big managerial promotion, or your youngest child graduated college, or you’ve earned yourself a stable retirement, or you just want something nicer than the Chevrolet or Toyota or Honda or Ford you’ve been driving for the last 15 years. You’ve put in the work to get where you are, and you deserve to enjoy the fruits of your labor while they’re still ripe.
However, if you’ve never shopped in the luxury space before and don’t have any brand allegiances on that end of the market, navigating the world of upscale cars can be a minefield. Every drivetrain layout you can think of, huge option sheets, a variety of powertrains, it’s all a lot to digest. However, if you have $50,000 to $60,000 burning a hole in your pocket and want something nice, might I suggest the Lexus ES 350? It might not be the most exciting option in that price bracket, but it might just offer more luxury than anything else for the money if you’re looking at the whole experience.
Welcome to the fourth installment of our car-buying advice series for the whimsical and impulsive. I’m taking over for Matt on this one, and although we typically try to bring you something a bit left-field, this time it’s a car that’s so ubiquitous, it’s often overlooked by those who want to try a bit harder. That’s a shame, because popular choices are popular for a reason, and there’s a whole lot to love about the Lexus ES 350.
This isn’t a car for the person who bought a clapped-out 3 Series in college and never looked back. They know what they want, and they’re going to give their salesperson kittens over the spec sheet. Instead, this is for the everyperson who was lucky enough to make a few good moves and now wants an upgrade, but doesn’t know what to pick. Without further ado, let’s get into why the Lexus ES 350 makes a spectacular first luxury car.
Reason #1: It’s Reassuringly Posh
Since luxury cars are known for their gadgets, let’s start there. A few years ago, the ES 350 got a new infotainment system that abolished the controversial trackpad, leaving you with a 12.3-inch touchscreen, plenty of physical controls for your climate and audio controls, and a separate digital instrument cluster. As you’d expect on a well-specced luxury car, the front seats are heated and ventilated, the heated steering wheel warms up nicely even in properly cold weather, and you can even get a power sun blind for the rear window to block out glare. Short of massaging seats, all the toys you’d really want are here, right down to the advanced driver assistance suite. One option box that’s absolutely worth ticking is the one for the crisp, powerful 17-speaker, 1,800-watt Mark Levinson audio system. Crank up the volume, and you’ll get faithful sound reproduction with soaring highs, thunderous bass, a solid mid-range, and plenty of clarity. Now that’s an upscale gadget.
However, the ES 350 really makes itself known by offering luxury through design. Bezel-free metallic interior door handles evocative of those in the six-figure LC 500 grand tourer, concentric volume, and tuning knobs that move with the reassuring heft of a high-end home amplifier, great attention paid to materials, layering, and composition. Oh, and a virtual lack of shiny black plastic. Lexus has even spent the effort on getting the little climate control temperature displays to scroll like an old alarm clock instead of simply switching to the next number when you adjust the temperature. Instead of relying heavily on flashy tech that’s sure to date in a decade, the ES 350 demonstrates prowess in design and build quality, a thoughtfulness and solidity that earns it a seat at the table, even if its underpinnings are somewhat common.
In fact, the only real demerit is the flat nature of the front seats. If you’re used to the more body-hugging thrones competitors offer that fit snug like your favorite jeans, these chairs take some time to get used to. Still, the ES 350 feels its price tag every time you get into it, offering the sort of elevated richness you’d expect from a proper luxury car.
Reason #2: It’s Not Trying To Be A Performance Car
Over the past few years, the midsize luxury sedan has largely disappeared in favor of the midsize sports luxury sedan with its starchier suspension and focus on skidpad numbers over comfort. If you’re a keen driver, you might enjoy those benefits, but to most, they largely translate as a slightly firm ride in the real world. The Lexus ES 350 takes a more classic approach. Sure, it has some sporty styling touches, but it’s very much a comfort-first proposition. It glides over city potholes that you’d notice in most other luxury cars, and offers up an overarching air of ease, like a classically trained butler.
Once at a cruise, you’ll experience a soft, plush ride with just the faintest whiff of secondary body motions over expansion joints. Less waterbed, more pillow. Likewise, while the eight-speed automatic transmission isn’t the most responsive unit in its standard drive mode, it’s been programmed with a pathological desire to keep the revs as low as possible, doling out buttery shifts early and often, ensuring you don’t so much as ripple the latte art atop your size du jour. If you ever need to accelerate hard, simply plant your right foot to the carpet and enjoy the sonorous tenor notes and effortless thrust of the 302-horsepower 3.5-liter V6 under the hood. In an age when $60,000 might get you something with a turbocharged four-banger, it’s hard to beat the smoothness of six cylinders. Just as nearly every midsize luxury car wants to quicken your pulse, the ES 350 wants to lower it. That’s an old-school sort of luxury.
However, don’t mistake calm with a lack of confidence. Unusually weighty steering in all modes may be your only hint that if you flick the Shrek-ear drive mode selector up two notches and take control of the paddle shifters, the ES 350 can boogie harder than you might expect. The dampers firm up, the V6 stays in the power band, and you gain remarkable trust in the car through sweeping bends, even if traction when accelerating hard at low speeds is, well, limited. This is Civic Type R horsepower in a front-wheel-drive car without a limited-slip differential. Even though it might weigh nearly 3,700 pounds, you should still treat it with respect. It’s no performance car, but if you want to really get a move on, it’ll do so without much of a fuss, save for a bit of wheelspin.
Reason #3: It Promises The Greatest Luxury Of All
What’s the one thing we can never get back, no matter how many zeros are in our checking accounts? That’s right, it’s time. It’s no secret that buying a car can suck, all the hours spent in the finance and insurance office ironing out the last details of a deal. Part of the joy of the ES 350 is that you might not need to replace it for a couple of decades. The 2GR-FKS V6 engine under the hood has been on the market for a decade and is capable of 200,000 miles with just regular maintenance. The eight-speed automatic transmission is also proven, and you always see Lexus right up near the top of all those reliability surveys.
That promise of reliability means you should also spend less time in service departments than if you bought something German, which would mean more time and money to do the stuff you actually want to do in life. Michelin Star meals, vacations, indulging in hobbies, or even just investing a little bit more in your retirement.
So, if you want a nice car, maybe just buy a Lexus ES 350. This fully-loaded Blackline model may carry an as-tested price of $58,015 including freight ($67,266 in Canada), but that’s still less than you’d pay for a Mercedes-Benz E-Class or BMW 5 Series. Sure, the Germans might drive tighter, but isn’t peace of mind a beautiful thing to have?
(Photo credits: Thomas Hundal)
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Always steering people to Lexus because it does the job so damn well but those interiors are shameful. Especially the ES. Looks like a Chinese massaging chair. Cheap, tacky and overwrought
Stay away from the red leather crap and they look fine.
But then I’ve hated red interiors ever since 80s Chryslers.
There is a lot to be said for a car the does what it was designed to do very well. If you like comfortable and posh-ish, but don’t have the money for REALLY posh, it’s hard to go wrong with an ES.
The 1999 ES 300 I inherited from my dad to be my son’s first car has impressed me so much I would consider buying the current edition. I cannot believe how good a car that old still is.
True Story:
This past weekend I was ready to buy a new Lexus ES300 Hybrid. I need something comfortable for long drives (6 hours +).
Then I drove a CPO BMW M340i for the same price at the recommendation of my brother.
I’ve got a BMW M340 in my garage today. Need I
say more.
Well Shucks…guess I have to change my Avatar now.
The Lexus salesman said that BMWs are nowhere as reliable as Lexus. I said “I know. I’ll probably see you again in 3 years.”
It’s a Toyota at heart, and that’s not a bad thing at all. I’ve had two Lexus products, and my roommate’s daily driver is a 2012 IS250 AWD that he loves. The dealer who baselined the maintenance at 116K miles after we bought it used said it would go another 150k, easy. They’re fine cars.
Now if they’d lose that hideous grille, I seriously consider buying another.
I agree that the ex350 is a great choice for a mid level luxury sedan with no sporting aspirations. I will throw another vehicle out there that may be slightly more fun to drive. The Cadillac CT-5. I have a 2015 Grand Cherokee SRT that I’ve owned since new, it was rarely in the shop for anything beyond scheduled maintenance. I did have trouble with the Bilstein active front shocks at 70k miles but that ended up being covered by the extended warranty. (Paid for it and then some actually). Now that it’s got 182,700 miles on it I expect various parts to start dying. The latest issue was a failure of the primary and secondary fuel pumps. I suspect that my stepson who was driving it at the time didn’t like filling the tank and let it get pretty low. Anyhoo since I figured the Jeep was going to start getting expensive to maintain and keep on the road, I decided to get a car that would get reasonable gas mileage and still be fun to drive. For me that ended up being a Cadillac CT-5 Sport RWD.
While it is just a 4cyl inline engine that has middling performance for its size, it isn’t bad. It’s roughly like a VW GTI but with the correct wheels being driven. The Cadillac Alpha II platform is a lot of fun to toss around corners and the Brembo brakes stop pretty well. I expect to have to clean the Carbon out of the engine at around 100k miles but I bought it CPO with about 22.5k miles on the odometer. So far I’ve added 10k miles and no complaints.
The ES 350 was on my list when I was buying last… it’s a perfectly sensible car. Looks good, drives well enough, all the things talked about in here. BUT… used ones hold their value really well. Likely for all the reasons in this article. At the time, that just made it more expensive than other options.
Oddly, I was able to find good deals on a GS-F at the same time… and that’s pretty much my favourite 4-door sedan. It’s pretty rare around here, sounds great with a small tweak, and sufficiently quick while also having all the Lexus reliability and creature comforts. The used ones that were at a decent price were much older than the ES’ I was looking at, but given the nature of Lexus, I wasn’t worried. I ended up going a completely different direction… but there are times I experience some dissonance over not choosing the GS-F I was looking at…
Yeah, no.
Are we not a collection of enthusiasts? There is no conceivable world where I spend $60,000 on this boring-ass thing. As an enthusiast, there are an infinite number of ways to better spend that kind of money. Get a regular, CPO used car and a weekend car. Or a track car. Or a classic car. Or a track car and a cheap truck to tow it.
There’s no shortage of Toyota shilling here, but they really laid it on thick for this
sedativecar.The ES350 is an easy choice to recommend to anyone because it’s virtually generic, other than that butt-ugly spindle grille.
I’d pick the ES350 if my goal was to cover as many miles as possible in comfort, but only because Toyota stopped making the Avalon.
The equivalent recommendation for anyone with even a bit of enthusiasm about driving is the Acura TLX. Especially the twin turbo V6 with SH-AWD. A bit less posh, but a whole hell of a lot more fun to drive.
Not everyone has space to store multiple fun cars, and not everyone wants to spend their free time messing around with unreliable ones. It might not be for you, but that doesn’t mean it’s not for anyone.
Hey, I’m an auto enthusiast, and I have an ES350.
I also have an MR2 and a CRX which I grab when I want to be enthusiastic behind the wheel. For the 20 mile commute to work or road trips? Lexus every time. At a certain point/age, you figure out that fast/fun cars are neither fast nor fun in rush hour traffic, and they’re certainly not fun droning and bucking on a 600 mile trip to see your in-laws.
Admittedly, I’m lucky enough that I get to have more than one car, so I can spec them all toward particular missions. If I had to pare it down to just one, I’d sell them all and get something that was more of a blend of sport and luxury, like a TLX or maybe a Lucid.
I seriously started to look into this but it has a major drawback since this would be my only car, it’s rear seats don’t fold down.
The nearest enthusiast competitor, the TLX, has seats that fold down… …but there’s structural bracing across there that defeats the point. Seems more common lately. If this keeps up, you’ll probably be forced away from buying a sedan.
Smart money pick is probably the 300h. Same luxury, but mpg goes from 27 to low 40s. Same price as the 350
May as well go Camry then. Not a knock on the Lexus, but rather a praise of the new Camry.
I drove both when shopping for mine. The 300h is slooowwww. The 350 isn’t exactly fast, especially in this age of EVs blowing the doors off of real sports cars, but it’s a helluvalot faster than the hybrid version.
I’d need a lobotomy to drive an ES350. Horrendously boring cars. Why does Lexus still think that they can get away with a transverse layout in the luxury segment?
Because the vast majority of buyers do not know or care which wheels are driven.
Example (an oldie but goodie): https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-80-of-1series-owners-dont-know-they-have-rearwheeldrive-cars-3558/
How does a well-equipped Crown compare to this?
A Crown Platinum is $56k fully loaded, it also has heated/cooled/memory seats and lots of creature comforts (the JBL stereo only has 11 speakers though).
Plus you get AWD (it’s Toyota’s relatively feeble electric AWD, but still), rear wheel steering, and a hybrid system getting about 30mpg combined. If you really hate the looks of the ES (I don’t, but YMMV), maybe the Crown will appeal more to you.
Living in a rainy climate that at least used to get snow every winter, my wife has said all our cars will have AWD from here on out. Yes, I know the caveats to AWD, but it does help get you going if you’re stopped on low traction surfaces.
Looking at the ES, you can only get AWD on the standard 4cyl, not the V6 or hybrid. I wonder why that is.
The Crown is ugly.
The Crown wagon/CUV thing is OK though.
The Signia! I saw a rose gold one up close recently. They’re great looking cars. The really cool one is the Crown Sport but Toyota hasn’t said anything about whether or not they’ll bring it here.
Not quite as eye searingly, soul deadening, and gives you a rash ugly as the Lexus.
The Camry is more of an anonymously ugly random pile of current Japanese styling clichés suitable for bank robbery getaways.
That Lexus? It’s the Goatses of cars.
The hatchback version isn’t bad, but yeah, the Crown back end is pretty weird.
I guess it’s more a statement of how much Toyota has blurred the lines between Lexus and Toyota in the latest models with Lexus going more downmarket in areas and Toyota going more upmarket. The whole Land Cruiser / GX is a perfect example.
Subjective styling preferences aside, I think the Crown is probably overall better value if you just want a comfy and reliable sedan.
The ES added the I4/AWD option at the same time the old Camry added AWD, around 2020, and the Avalon added it same time/year after. IIRC they’ve never offered the nonhybrid 4 with FWD, so as to not dilute the image. So the ES I4/AWD existed more because it was in the parts bin for the Camry. I guess it does give an option for those that need more space than an IS AWD.
At that time they had only just rolled out the hybrid/e-AWD option to cars with the 2019 Prius. Now that the Camry offers it, I expect a next-gen ES would almost certainly add a hybrid/AWD setup.
I’m sure you’re right. At some point, all Toyotas will just be the same drivetrain with the body style of your choice plopped on top.
Please don’t. Please.
They’re cramped in the front seats, the stereo is missing so much range that somehow the high hats overpower the vocals, the safety systems are intrusive, the safety systems have to be turned off every single time the car’s started, the transmission will bog to damn near idle before downshifting unless you slam the throttle for a second or two, it has to be a second or two of throttle because the car has the anti-old person mechanism of a throttle delay for large input changes, the back seats are surprisingly uncomfortable, the rear window is annoyingly hard to see out of, the mirrors cut off a huge portion of their viewing angle and create blind spots you can’t overcome no matter where you move your head, and basically anything you do without the engine running will drain the battery to nothing within a few hours.
Buy the Lexus GS instead. The GS doesn’t think you’re a danger on the road who’s so old you remember seeing Roy Orbison play live in concert.
The GS hasn’t been made since 2020?
That just means you can get a deal on one.
If you can find an untitled one still on a lot somewhere, I support you getting the best deal you can, but this article is about buying new cars.
Really? I thought they were still making them.
Regardless, my point is, as someone who’s lived with an ES don’t get an ES.
I had two ES’s one was the V6 and the other the ES300h, both fine cars. Neither acted or drove like you describe.
I did have a Camry years before that had the hesitation you speak off, that was probably a 2008 or 9 whereas the ES’s where 2016 / 17.
I wonder if your experience is based off an older ES.
2019 ES350. No matter what setting it’s in, eco, or sport the hesitance to downshift is there. When the car goes up a long incline the engine RPMs will slowly settle down to almost 1600 before the engine kicks down a gear. That means maintaining speed on a long uphill two lane road requires a careful guess of when to push the pedal down and for how long or else the car will surge forward and spook whoever’s in front of you.
Another annoying facet of the transmission is the gear readout will lie to you. If you manually choose a gear by pushing the gear shifter or using the paddles after a while if you change the amount of throttle input the car will upshift in an attempt save fuel, but the gauges will still say you’re in the same gear. I’ve noticed it when trying to hold fourth or when trying to hold sixth. The car wants to go up to either fifth or seventh.
Pretty sure most automakers have intrusive safety systems have to be shut off again manually every time, I think it might be an EU regulation that the settings can’t be saved from trip to trip in case a different driver gets in and doesn’t realize lane keeping assist is turned off or something. I guess they could maybe turn that off in the US, but it seems like a lot aren’t bothering to
There is something seriously wrong with the ES you drove. Mine has none of those problems.
There are things that annoy me about it, but nothing like what you’re reporting.
Maybe there is something wrong with it. I objected to buying the ES as they had the previous generation and I disliked multiple facets of that one as well. Looking back those complaints were minor compared to the ones I’ve had with the current one. As for what could be causing the fuckery, the thing’s had the bumper smashed in by hitting a bollard, the front rim bent (and tire blown off as a result) from driving through a gap in a parking lot, been backed into a sign pole, and run over a freshly shed semi truck radial carcass. That could all explain the transmission being wonky, but the throttle thing’s like that since at least I first drove it, a couple of months after they first got it.
I can’t explain the stereo, though. Listening to Emerson Lake and Palmer should be a simple thing, not an ear straining affair where the bass drum and the flute are somehow louder than everything else.
I thought I’ve made it fairly clear that the answer is no.
“Reason #2: It’s Not Trying To Be A Performance Car”
Your Blackline package, F-Sport badges, decklid spoiler, paddle shifters, brushed metal interior trim, and stripey red interior would beg to differ.
Well, it is a Camry, so of course it’s the sensible choice.
Next car will likely be one of these or a Crown.
Can’t say I blame you, especially if it’s “one of your last” car purchases.
My wife wants a Grand Highlander, I keep telling her it’s as big as an Edsel and she should get a RAV4 instead.
So, I’ve had several of these as a loaner when I had my Lexus in for service. Each time I’m like “Oh, an ES…” as though it wasn’t nicer than the Lexus I was having serviced. Each time I was hesitant to give it back, because while the ES isn’t an exciting car, it is an excellent car. Even if you don’t spring for the nicer options like the Mark Levinson speaker setup, you still get excellent build quality, nice features, and a robust power train all at a price point of non-luxury competitors. Going for a used ES is even better because you get all of that but with a depreciation curve a bit more sloped than other Lexus models. My last ES350 loaner has a “Would you like to buy me?” sticker inside – it was $48k when new, had spent its whole six month lifespan as a dealer demo loaner, had 2700 miles, and they were asking $36k for it. I was mightily tempted…
100%. All the hate in this thread is from people who have never driven one. They are fantastic cars that do comfort exceptionally well.
I’m sure they are fine on the inside.
Once upon a time, I thought that a sports car would be the perfect commuter/long-haul machine. The sporty ride, the noise, the handling prowess, the power.
Then I spent time driving many of the unexciting highways and commutes of my life. The rough ride punishing, the noise fatiguing, the handling prowess and power wasted on unchallenging arrow-straight slogs in traffic. So many miles of commuting instead of driving.
The wiser version of me says: The Lexus ES would have been a much nicer place to spend those miles. A bit of serenity through traffic-snarled cities, Interstate miles easily devoured while arriving at one’s destination feeling relaxed instead of worn out. Enjoy the security of having it work painlessly. Never scrape a knuckle cursing a repair.
Is this an Autopian driving fantasy machine? Oh heck no. Is this a damned good commuting machine? Yes, provided you can get past the looks. Making one’s commute more pleasant sounds like ‘Mission Accomplished’ on the Lexus luxury design brief to me.
Want to drive? Look elsewhere.
Ha! My mom purchased an ES just last week. In white even. She loves it for all the reasons described. We test drove a Genesis G70 too and that was “too sporty.”
Something about the G70 has just never really worked for me for some reason. I find that all of the Genesis designs photograph well but when I see them in person they all kind of look unfinished to me, if that makes sense. They also get class worst fuel economy and after owning a Korean car wouldn’t trust Korean reliability any more than I’d trust German reliability.
I still think a Genesis is a very good used buy because Hyundai/Kia products have some of the worst depreciation in the industry. You can a lightly used or certified V6 G70 or G80 for $35-40,000 and at that price you’re getting a lot of car. Hell if you can live with the crappy corporate 2 liter 4 you can get a G70 in the mid to high 20s.
But new? Absolutely not. You’re just incinerating money. And I’d still be hard pressed to go used Genesis over Lexus. In 10 years the Lexus will still be worth 15-20 grand and be running like new. The Genesis will be worth like $7, if it’s even running at that point.
G70 is much more like the IS than the ES.
I have a friend who is a partner at a major corporate law firm. He is not a car guy, so he came to me for advice. I told him to just buy the nicest Camry he can find, but if he wants to step up in luxury, he should look at the ES350.
He looked at them on the internet and IMMEDIATELY came back with ‘EW WTF?!?” The front end of it absolutely killed it. I told him, look, you’ll never see it when you’re driving it. His response was yeah, but everyone else will!
I am so confused. It’s got a good badge on it and it’s not the BMW nostrils. I don’t see what’s to hate, and clearly he cares about the badge more than the functionality so…
The grill. He can’t stand the Predator face.
I think the grill is better in person than in pictures, but it is still there, for sure.
That said, I’m not sure what modern grill is not polarizing.
Back when my Kona N’s future was looking uncertain I was looking at lightly used ES350s. You can find them in the mid to high 30s all day, they come in some really nice colors inside and out, the Mark Levinson sound systems are amazing, and perhaps most of all they’re just really nice cars. As I’ve ranted about a few times, I personally believe Lexus is the pinnacle of (semi) attainable luxury.
These things will run for 250,000+ miles with nothing but preventative maintenance too. There’s a decent chance an ES will outlast you and/or the heat death of the universe. They’re also pretty inconspicuous. They look nice, but there’s nothing particularly gaudy or esoteric about them. There are no stupid light up badges, light up grilles, etc.
Dynamically they can’t match the Germans, but if you’re just commuting and road tripping in your car it doesn’t really matter, and 300 horsepower is more than enough if you want to scoot. This V6 sounds fantastic too, which is an added bonus. You can also fit four adults in an ES comfortably and if fuel economy is your main priority they’re also available with Toyota’s bombproof hybrid powertrain as well.
Some say that suits the personality of this car better. I personally don’t think you can go wrong with the hybrid or the V6…and the V6’s gas mileage is perfectly acceptable. Anyway, suffice to say I think these are tragically slept on in the grand scheme of things. They’re just good, honest, well made barges that will get you from point A to point B for a decade plus without any drama. To me that makes them excellent luxury products. Your extra money is going to the extra craftsmanship and attention to detail, and in this case it’s worth it.
Agreed on all counts, except for the (subjective) looks. Most of the car looks good, I’ve personally just never been able to get past the spindle grille. I always wonder if they stick with it out of the same corporate culture dogmatism that keeps them pursuing hydrogen, but then I look at their sales numbers and it doesn’t seem to be hurting them, so perhaps I’m in the minority.
The grille doesn’t bug me personally. At least they’re not goddamn BMW…
I don’t like the predator mouth grille on mine either. On the other hand, it looks pretty damn good on the LC. I think it’s a design element that requires a certain styling on the rest of the car, but because car makers seem to think every car nose has to carry “brand identity,” they’re stuck slapping it onto things that shouldn’t have it.
Besides the otherwise challenging looks, would the Toyota Crown (sedan) be a better value than the ES? You get stellar build quality and Crown’s have been selling below sticker.
The Crown is very nice, but there are some Lexus-only features you can’t get, like the V6 engine and the Levinson audio system that make the ES worth a consideration (if you value that stuff).
As a mild Audiophile that is definitely a big plus. Once you have heard your music on a good setup, you are never comfortably going back.
We bought a Crown over a year ago. The large wheels are not for someone who wants to drive without looking ahead to midwestern potholes, and the 2.5L petrol engine is growly when it kicks in. For those reasons, the ES350 might be preferable to that class of shoppers.
For me – the problem with the ES is that the IS is such an excellent car that somehow the ES feels like a step backward. Somehow it’s not hiding its more pedestrian roots, something about the size betrays its Camry lineage. Also going from a RWD platform to a FWD platform is a setback, no matter how you spin it.
I think what Thomas is getting at is the Camry lineage is the point of this thing. For the ES, FWD isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. It means better packaging, shared engineering with the Camry, and slightly better fuel economy. The ES is closer to old-school luxury because of its Camry roots than something like an IS, not in spite of them.
Sure, but like, this is why I said for me. I just couldn’t get past it, like – you buy a CLA at Mercedes which is FWD, go to a C class, it’s RWD, you don’t then go back to FWD at E-class
When we were looking at a Lexus TX for my wife, I asked the sales person about the incongruity between the IS and the ES, since the IS is ostensibly the entry level vehicle but goes up way beyond the ES in price when you start optioning it up. Her response was that the IS and ES are both the entry level option – IS is if you want sporty and don’t care about terrible rear seat room. The ES is for those that want smoothness and refinement, and then highlighted that most of her ES buyers owned Avalons until Toyota replaced the Avalon with the Crown.
I love the IS, especially the IS500 that has an old-school muscle sedan feel to it, but the lack of rear seat leg room (especially when I adjust it to fit my tall-but-not-super-tall frame) is always been a deal killer – at least until the kids are grown and gone.
My only requirement is that you refer to it as “The Lexus Texas” with a perfectly straight face because that’s just the way it needs to be.
“Alexus Texas”, ewwwwwwwww
Thinking of is as the Goatses of cars was bad enough.
And to think some people drive children around in those things.
As a former Texan, that’s all I’ve ever referred to it as. But alas, we didn’t buy one.
Fair point on the “for me” part; my doofus brain deleted those words for some reason!
I didn’t need to read this today. Planning to replace the 4XE and I’ve been looking at CPO versions of these a bit. I keep telling myself to just get a couple year old Accord 2.0T, especially since I’m not a badge snob, but since I’m just looking for a comfortable big car to drive long distances its hard to not admire the ES for the job.
The ES is like the car where both the entry-level analyst and the CEO drive the same car, and nobody thinks anything of it.
Yes. That too. I’ve landed a VP title and I’m in a finance role and in my head keep thinking this is that choice that makes me look like what I do for a living.
I’ve still got the Miata for when I want to have fun.
Which is also sort of like the underlying Camry, and it’s arch rival, Accord. Lots of people who could afford luxury brands, but just don’t care about cars and treat them purely as domestic appliances, still buy those also, so you get a weirdly broad span of demographics
Do yourself a favor and get the V6 over the turbo 4.
I won’t consider the Lexus without a V6. Unless you meant the Accord, in which case I’m not considering the V6 due to age.
I meant I would get the V6 Lexus over the 4 cyl Accord, almost without regard to the other virtues of the respective cars.
Since you’re already considering Honda, be sure to try an Accord Hybrid Touring. Honda is making the hybrid versions their top of the line, so you know it’ll be optioned nicely. Fuel economy is excellent.
It will take a little bit to get used to the eCVT, but once you do, the unfamiliar sound pattern becomes normal. Instead of getting louder as your speed increases, it gets louder as your power demands increase.
The ES is going to be more lux, but an Accord Hybrid Touring is over $10,000 less than the ES for the same sized car. No fault if you choose the ES, it’s the default choice for a reason.
I’m planning to look at it, but I have a hard time considering it because of the CVT and the fact that the last gen has more power available with the 2.0T. The pricing is very attractive and I could buy one new. They look sharp as well. I just want more than 205hp.
It’s a eCVT, which is much different than a CVT. I’d never own a vehicle with a CVT.
The way the horsepower is delivered in a Honda hybrid is different than others. The electric motors in their hybrids are pretty big, and contribute to a much sportier feel than you’d expect from only 205hp.
Also coming out of a PHEV thats been… an experience… has me reluctant to go with a hybrid again… even if its from a leader in the space like Honda or Toyota. Wanting something more simple, even if its costing me some MPG to do it. I still do plan to test drive one.
OK, I’m gonna be That Guy since I’ve had a couple of A4-derived Passats back to back (for both interior space and price reasons): Do you choose an upper-trim Camry or ES350?
To me that’s always the million-dollar question with platform sharing in general. I tend to favor the highly-optioned “everyday brand” over the luxury, but in Lexus’s defense, they have the least baggage of all of all the luxury brands.
Especially in Europe, where they have zero baggage because nobody has ever seen one.
Thats the debate I’m going through right now. The lack of shiny black plastic in the Lexus interior is good reason to consider it.
New I don’t think I’d give these the time of day. But a CPO one priced in the low 30’s is a different proposition.
You’ll get better treatment and snacks at Lexus service than Toyota service.
Loaner cars are more common at Lexus if you need one, and the waiting area is a nicer place to be a Lexus – You’ll pay for that experience too.
Well there’s no more Camry V6, so that does make the decision easier now.
Acura probably outdoes them in direct competitors (ES/TLX, NX/RDX, TX/MDX) on the lack of baggage front, although arguably not as high a tier in luxury, closer to Genesis and Buick.
Price wise, the customer service and projected resale might offset any premium for the Lexus. For me it varied quite a bit by generation with regards to styling. Late 90s/XV20 gen, I think the ES was appreciably nicer looking inside and out than the Camry while their following gen, tips more back toward Camry.
The Avalon would actually have been my answer more often than not, and often seemed to win the “old money” buyer most. An Avalon would still be my first choice between the 3 on the used market although least common since the ES generally sold more. Maybe that’s part of the appeal to me too.
Throw the ES vs. the Crown and I’d go Lexus for sure. Yet I’d probably go Signia over an RX.
Pre-covid, I test drove an Avalon that was the last on the dealer’s lot, at roughly $10,000 off MSRP. A tiny factor was that I was hoping the following year’s model would go back to looking a bit more conservative. But I had recently changed jobs, and didn’t feel financially stable enough to buy at that moment. I figured that if it were $10k off MSRP, I’d be able to buy one used for even less.
I’m still questioning myself years later. I could have easily sold it after COVID for a huge profit, but in reality, I would still love to have a new one today. I’m just now seeing used ones less than three years old priced as low as the new one I passed up.
I’ve toyed with the idea of a used one myself but don’t really need a big sedan. The interior design (even with some haptic buttons IIRC) is nicer than its platformmates. Maybe as the Crown gets more accepted, that will help stabilize some of the used Avalon secondhand prices moving forward.
I don’t know that Genesis deserves to be considered such low tier anymore. Drove an electrified G80 the other day just for fun, and it was pretty damn nice. There are a few things I’d change (price being one of them because for that price, you can also get a Lucid) but, especially for someone like me who came of age in cars when the Hyundai Excel was new and freshly shitty, driving something like that G80 and realizing it’s made by the same company is pretty astonishing.
Genesis is definitely on my radar for when I decide to replace my Lexus.
I’d disagree and say get yourself an Audi A3. We just got a new one, after the good luck with the 2016 TDI version, that was WAY more reliable than I expected. The A3 is listed at 41.9K delivered in CT , and you can work your way down from there. There is good DYI support with an OBD11 reader for customizing the car, and FCP Euro offers parts from the original Manufacturer that VW/Audi get them from, cheaper.
Checks calendar to be sure it’s not April 1 yet.
The Venn diagram for compact German AWD sports sedans vs large/midsize Japanese FWD luxobarges is probably close to nil. Except Autopians, that is.
The A3 is a nice car (my brother has an RS3 and its amazing) but if you need space for 4 adults, the A3 isn’t it.
Yeah there’s just no way in hell that it’s going to be as reliable as a Lexus. Everyone I know who’s owned one has had significant issues with the EA888, myself included. Current Audi interiors have taken a step back as well. They’re not bad, but they’re definitely not what they used to be materials wise. The A3 is also way, way smaller.
If you’re leasing then sure, an Audi is going to be more fun to drive and you won’t have to worry about the reliability issues as much. But if you’re buying something to keep there’s no comparison.
I have an EA888.1 (2009 gti) that I hope is the exception to this rule. I have a slight coolant leak I can’t seem to trace, but otherwise I am nearing 170k mostly reliable miles. And it’s got a stage 1 (93 octane if you’re old) tune.
But I am not in a one-car-has-to-do-it-all situation any more. If it really starts to VW I will be shopping well-used Lexus or Acura for the daily. I want something sporty to drive when I want something sporty, but I am aging into wanting comfort a bit more often.
Whilst I didn’t have issues when I owned my VW, I’ve known a couple that had complete engine teardown-issues, and turbo failures on their EA888s.
I also had my dealership tell me that it’s normal for my engine to consume a litre or more of oil between changes and I would need to check it regularly. Thankfully: my engine never missed a beat and I never experienced any oil loss/consumption – which, to the dealer, seemed atypical.
Having owned a 2014 IS350 and recently had a 2024 A4 for a few days. They are very different cars. If you want reliable luxury the Lexus is the choice, and I don’t think they are that close.
I wonder how a 2024 IS350 compare to the same year A4.
I haven’t looked at Audi for a long while, is the A6 a similar size to the ES, do both come with V6’s (yes the ES does)
Honestly, I liked my 2014 IS more than the 2024 A4. Not to say everybody would come to the same conclusion, but I wasn’t impressed with the fit/finish and material quality inside the A4. To me the A4 sacrificed ‘premium’ materials to have more tech.